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Wine Talk

Snooth User: FernandoCabada
Wine preservation. Diference between european and new world wines
Posted by FernandoCabada, Oct 21.

I live in Lima (Perú) where temperature use to oscillate between 14°C (57°F) in winter and 29°C (84°F) in the summer.
I have a small wine keeper set at 15°C for my red wines (I keep white wines at 10°C in other keeper). As I don´t have enough room for all the red wines, I may choose some wines to be in the wine keeper and the rest to be at room temperature.

Once I heard that european wines need to be keeped in the climate cellar while american wines don´t.

I wonder if someone can help me with information about this issue.

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Reply by dmcker, Oct 22.

Not so much difference between, for example, French and California wines when it comes to storage. Conditions should be minimal temperature fluctuations, minimal vibration, minimal light. Depending on the layout of your house or apartment, a relatively unused closet could be fine.

Are the temperatures you quote averages for the seasons, or absolute highs and lows? If the latter, Lima is a lot more temperate than I thought...

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Reply by FernandoCabada, Oct 22.

In summer the maximum room temperature is about 29.0 °C (84°F) between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM. The minimum temperature must be 24°C (75°F) at dawn.
In winter the maximum room temperature is about 20.0 °C (68°F) between 11:00 AM and 3:00 PM. The minimum temperature must be 14°C (57°F) at dawn.
It is not so hot and not so cold. The humidity is about 95% so the temperatuture sensation is higher.

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Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Oct 22.

Hi Fernando.

I am definitely more liberal than most when it comes to recommended temperature for wine storage. I am of the opinion that storing wines in a climate under 72 degrees or so only speeds up the maturation process as opposed to compromising it. Ok it's definitely better to store wine at cooler temperatures but over the medium term, 5-10 years, and for the vast majority of wines and consumers it simply does not make that big of a difference.

Above 75 degrees though, the wines definitely do not age as well so you would be well advised to store your wine, New World and old world, under temperature control.

I have heard that people think European wines are more delicate and require more intensive care but there is no reason to think one set of wines is any more able to withstand poor treatment than another.

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Reply by dmcker, Oct 22.

Humidity and winter ambient temperatures don't look to be a problem. Summer temps, as Greg mentions, are, however.

A couple more questions:
--how long do you plan to store your wines (meaning do you want to lay down and age fine wines, or are you just planning to drink everything up within a few months)?
--is some part of your house or apartment cooler than the rest (as in a basement, or an interior closet not connected with exterior walls)?

If you are going to just be consuming wines quickly in a weekly or few-monthly cycle between purchasing and drinking, and not storing them for more mature enjoyment in future years, don't worry so much about it.

If you do want to store some bottles for longer periods of time, and don't have a cooler, darker, quieter part of the house then you should consider alternative storage for your better bottles. This could include another wine fridge, or storing the wine somewhere else (a family member or friend's cellar, or even commercial storage).

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Reply by rar8888, Oct 22.

I agree that the neither European or new world wines should be stored long term above 70 degrees. Although how much the temperature differentials matter definitely depends upon how long you intend to age the wine.

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Reply by GregT, Oct 23.

Fernando - Just as a note - whenever someone makes a super-broad statement regarding "European" or "American" or "Australian" wines, ask the person what the hell he is talking about. Guys like Greg and dmucker, who have tasted plenty of wine, both suggest that there should be no difference in storage based on the source of the wine. Why would there be?

There is one thing to consider however. Brettanomyces, which is a spoilage yeast that is nearly impossible to get rid of, grows best at temperatures over 20 C. Brett comes from many sources, but one thing that can be done to minimize it is "clean" winemaking - i.e.thorough cleaning of the winery, the equipment, etc., can help minimize the presence of undesired fungi, bacteria, and yeasts. Some of the older wine producers in Europe were traditionally not fastidious. In Italy, France, Spain, Romania, etc., you can find wines with lots of Brett. Below 20 C bretts growth is inhibited. So if you don't want your wine to become a melange of mushrooms and band-aids, and it's already going to be something funky, store it cooler.

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Reply by schellbe, Oct 24.

I am unclear about this last post, Greg. Does warm storage of bottled wines promote brett growth in wines already infected, or can it promote infection and growth in previously uncontaminated wines in one's cellar?

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Reply by GregT, Oct 24.

Maybe it should be a Snooth article but I just did a few and need a rest.

Brett won't appear in your bottle if there was none to begin with. However, that is unlikely because brett is all around. Remember, it's a kind of yeast and those spores are all over the place. You make bread by putting some flour and water out on the counter and "catching' some kind of yeast that happens to be floating around.

Therefore, especially if your winery isn't clean, you probably have bretty wines, and this was characteristic of many European wines in prior years. U.C. Davis, promoting clean winemaking, did a lot to improve wines around the world but there have also been some critics who claim that Davis has promoted the production of "sterile" wines.

Whatever.

Because it's all around, with a little oxygen and minimal nutrients, brettanomyces of some strain or another can grow using the alcohol in the wine as a source of carbon, some amino acids in the wine for nitrogen, and even some of the sugars in the wood of the barrels, particularly the toasted woods. Thus the wine needs to be able to eat up, or use any available oxygen, so as to deprive the Brett of any ability to grow. That is also one reason for using sulfur. Also, since brett grows quickly at temperatures above 60 degrees F, keeping the wine cold helps.

Interestingly, "modern" wines create their own problems. Higher pH, higher sugar levels, and for some wine makers, reduced use of sulfur, all contribute to the growth of brett. So even if your winery is clean, your wine making style may still contribute to brettiness in your wine.

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Reply by cigarman168, Oct 24.

I believe any wines from any countries all need stored in cool temperature as chemical reaction will not only happen in particular region. One more thing, I want to add is keep in as dark place as you can since lights will also affects wine quality.

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Reply by GregT, Oct 25.

That's possibly true. I don't know of any studies where wine was aged 10 years in light and 10 years in dark though. I think that bit about light is because most wine was aged in dark places by default - cellars have no windows and there is no reason to keep the lights on when you're not there. Also, UV rays do in fact affect the reaction of some compounds, notably the methoxypyrazines in the cab family. Some people have also claimed that florescent lighting can be detrimental. But it would be interesting to see some evidence.



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