Wine Talk

Snooth User: jking3702

when to drink

Posted by jking3702, May 3, 2011.

bought 2 bottles of 09 Molly Dooker Carnival of Love.  I want to drink it, but should I?

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Replies

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Reply by hhotdog, May 3, 2011.

looked up some reviews...mix bag out there although most had good things to say.  seems drink now or within a few years is the rule.  big,fruity and vanilla comes up alot on the tasting notes i saw. people gave it 90-95 ratings across the board. open it up and let us know how it tastes!  around $100 a bottle not sure i would hold onto it much longer.  if your storage is iffy it would be a shame to have it go down hill.  good luck with that big shiraz!!

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Reply by jking3702, May 3, 2011.

stored in wine fridge, we got space and time.  I will certainly review when that day comes the corks off

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Reply by hhotdog, May 3, 2011.

wow, why didn't i think of this before?  i would give a shout out to StevenHarvey... he's the man on Aussie's!  he been ever so helpful and seems very willing to give his expertise on Aussie wine.  for what it's worth i respect all his insight on wine.  wish i new a fraction of what he knows about wine!  he's here on snooth quite often and if you send out the "StevenHarvey" signal into the sky i'm sure he would respond!

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Reply by gregt, May 3, 2011.

jking - have you never had the wine?  I can't imagine it going anywhere with additional time. 

You age a wine because you expect it to develop additional nuances and transform into something different and better. I've had plenty of these young.  I confess I've not had any old ones, but then again, nobody has because they don't exist.  Still, there's nothing in the wine that really requires additional time or indicates to me that it would improve with additional time. It is possible that the wine will hold on for a few years, perhaps many years - nobody really knows yet, but that's not why you keep wine.  I think you can quite happily drink that wine now.

I've had some of his wines that did become a little different after a few years - the Fox Creek for example, and some Henry's Drive, and in fact I still have a couple bottles of each that I've never gotten around to drinking and we'll see what happened with that after 15 years, but the wine you have is more extreme and I'm not sure the others really improved over their younger versions. The S2 Cab, a cheaper wine to be sure, became a real mess - the wood never integrated and the fruit faded so it's a woody, alcoholic, mess after 10 years.

I don't know why people age most Chateauneuf du Pape either, or wines from Priorat. Big, ripe, fruity, extracted and alcoholic wines are more likely to get weird rather than get better.  They're made for early pleasure IMO.  And anyhow, it's always better to drink a wine on its way up rather than on the way down!

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Reply by bosoxfan23, May 3, 2011.

I agree with GregT's advice - few wines really develop additional benefits by aging them.  However, if you would like a general reference point in regards to aging this Shiraz, you may want to consider Wine Advocate's and Wine Spectator's reviews.  

Wine Spectator stated, "There is a sense of refinement under the raw power, and the expressive finish holds on. Drink now thru 2018"

Wine Advocate declared, "this is a full-bodied, powerful Shiraz with a great deal of ripe dense fruit giving very good persistence. It finishes seriously spicy and just a little hot. Consider drinking this one 2012 to 2019+."

Again - I would heed GregT's advice - "it's always better to drink a wine on its way up rather than on the way down!"



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Reply by dmcker, May 3, 2011.

Bosox, lots of wine benefits from aging. But then more these days don't. Just beware of overgeneralizations.

It's safe to say this MollyDooker falls in the second category, btw....

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Reply by Girl Drink Drunk, May 3, 2011.

While this is a definite drink now wine to me, I suggest drinking one now and one later to decide which way you like it better.  Only way to know for sure.

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Reply by dmcker, May 3, 2011.

Save the second one only for a couple of years. I don't see it benefitting from 5-10, much less more. Otherwise a very intelligent suggestion from GDD....

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Reply by hhotdog, May 3, 2011.

D and GDD i agree with both of you and...Jking these two know wine! take advice form these two king. i respect and appreciate their opinions. i recently purchased an older cali cab... actually two bottles. i will open one this sat. and hang onto the other for a few years to see where it goes!!  of course i will let the "snoothers" know how they both show!  

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Reply by bosoxfan23, May 4, 2011.

Dmcker - perhaps I worded my reply incorrectly.  Yes, certain wines can benefit from aging - I said "few", because, I believe the majority of wines produced need to be consumed earlier rather than later.  Yes, I understand that certain "high-value" wines, whether, the wine is a Bordeaux or Californian Cab can benefit from aging.  And yes, Molly Dooker has created some great "high-value" Shiraz wines - the "Carnival of Love" series has been well received as has Penfolds Grange.  Shiraz is one of my favorite varietals - and I have had the Wolf Blass Platinum Label Shiraz, which would be in the same class as Molly Dooker's "Carnival of Love" and Penfold's Grange - I had a bottle of the 2001 Platinum around 2008 or so - it was absolutely wonderful.  However, I do not see that much benefit in aging a Shiraz wine for a long duration, but, that's me.  Since jking has 2 bottles of this fine wine, GDD's suggestion is a wise approach.

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Reply by dmcker, May 4, 2011.

Grange can definitely age well over time, esp. depending on the vintage. I don't put the MollyDooker in the same class as it, personally.

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Reply by Girl Drink Drunk, May 4, 2011.

Ditto, dm. 

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Reply by fibo86, May 5, 2011.

@jking3702 I can say you have got yourself a cracker of a wine you should drink it by 2018 my advice would be to drink it at around 2016 although as you have two bottles 1 @ 2014 and the other @ 2016

2009 vintage report

The 2009 vintage in McLaren Vale was a "tale of two vales." A thirteen day heat wave in late January and early February meant a vintage that started early and ended late. What started out as a hot vintage finished with the hallmarks of memorable, cooler years.

Vintage started in the last week of January for whites and the first week of February for Shiraz. Cool and dry conditions during berry ripening in most of the district were conducive to excellent flavour, colour and phenolic development.

Cabernet Sauvignon excelled, as it usually does in the cool, mild ripening years. It has an amazing perfume, fragrance and balanced fruit weight, all the hallmarks of the award winning 2006 Cabernets. Shiraz produced a more medium-bodied style showing restraint and elegance, with lifted red berry aromas and spice.

The region's leading winemakers and grape growers are confident that the resulting 2009 McLaren Vale wines will be of the award winning standard the region has become known for.

Hope this helps

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Reply by dmcker, May 5, 2011.

Fibo, who's the text from?

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Reply by gregt, May 6, 2011.

And why is it relevant?  The vintage is a general factor - the winemaker is a specific factor.  Sparky is a brilliant winemaker in that he is making exactly what he is trying to make - it's not accidental.  He trumps any vintage potential, as would any winemaker.  He likes a lot of extraction, a ripe style, goes for what he calls "fruit weight" and would most likely do that anywhere he made wine.  That affects what he's going to put on the market. 

So I'd definitely agree with the first part of the statement that it should be consumed by 2018. 

In fact, I'd say a few years earlier.  Like now.

I've had that wine on release and have had other iterations of it, which is what I based my comments on. 

BTW, last night I had Henry's Drive Cab from 2002.  If anything, that's done in a more restrained style than the Mollydookers and one would have expected it to age.  At eight years in, it's turning into a mature wine, which is obvious by the color and the aromas on opening.  Tasting it, you're also aware that it's no longer exactly young.  The oak is much more integrated than it was a few years ago, and the wine actually has a lot of varietal character, but it's also something that I shouldn't have kept.  It's both overripe and green - lots of bell pepper and at the same time, a lot of sweet fruit with some tomato and even tobacco.  All that is overlaid with the character of an aged cab.  It's not going to get better because it's already in decline.  I think it's a real mistake to keep those wines in the expectation of something better emerging. 

I figured I'd look up the ratings on that wine before I posted this and I wasn't surprised.  It got 92 points from Parker, 89 from Tanzer and the latter was probably closer to the mark when he reviewed the wine on its release.  Right now I'd say 85 or so if I were feeling really generous. 

It's a Cab and the Carnival is a Shiraz - doesn't matter. It's the winemaking that matters.  There are many good and ageable wines from Australia. For the most part, Sparky's wines aren't among those.

By way of comparison - I had that because I'd just spent the afternoon tasting a few dozen wines from Rioja and I wanted something different.  However, having had at least one 1994 Gran Reserva that was still amazingly youthful, and several wines that were from the 1990s and not yet peaking, and on Tuesday having done a survey of the 1996 vintage across Spain, we can say from experience that some winemakers build their wines for aging and some don't.

So my advice is the same.  Better to drink it now than on the way down. But for education, it's also a great idea to drink one now and one later. 

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Reply by fibo86, May 6, 2011.

It was supposed to be helpful not painful as it's a winemakers view of the vintage in the region.

And may I say Robert Parker 92 pointer for a South Australian wine, what a surprise! As it's his favorite number for the area. Also I had looked up many Australian writers who put it in the 4star or 85 point category. I just don't think that we should bow down to all the recommendations one person has, like education it's taking in all the facts. Not just those we are fond of.

I had given two dates that I thought would be suitable to drink to see the comparison.

ps how can you compare old world to new world, they are completely different.

@D from a friend in the region.

 

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Reply by gregt, May 7, 2011.

"And may I say Robert Parker 92 pointer for a South Australian wine, what a surprise! As it's his favorite number for the area."

Now that's funny! It's a good point - we should take in all the facts we can.  But opinions aren't facts and what are ratings or points but opinions?  Knowing both the wine and the winemaker, I simply offered my opinion, as an opinion to be sure, but based on firsthand knowledge, as well as the comments of the winemaker, and not on the opinion of any writer.

BTW - comparing new to old world - I think Australia has the oldest soils on the planet and is in fact, the oldest part of the world as far as we know.  In terms of winemaking styles, there are Australians working in Spain and France, French working in Argentina, and Argentines working in Italy.  I think it's quite wrong to generalize about "new" and "old" world as being completely different because I don't find that to be the case at all.

Anyhow, I'm not arguing here, just suggesting that when I've had Sparky's wines with time on them, and when I've had other wines of similar style with time on them, they tend not to be better with age.  Doesn't matter where it's from either - Spain, France, CA, Australia, Argentina - when the wine hits 16.5% alcohol, it generally has fairly low pH so needs acidification and for whatever the reason, that doesn't generally correlate to long life.  It does however, generally correlate to immediate enjoyment right out of the gate.  And once again, it's a great idea to drink the wine young and with a few years to learn first hand.

Cheers!

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Reply by fibo86, May 7, 2011.

You are right it is not a place to fight, sorry.

To have a firsthand opinons from winemakers and grape growers in the area would be them posting not us, as with me, it's hear say because we are repeating thier opinions and not really firsthand knowledge from us. So my opinion was the drinking time really, the rest I cut and pasted from an email from a winemaker in the area.

You are right in the fact that old and new are becoming one (but don't tell the French that). However that kind of wine is (for me) a great expression of new world. That's the reason for my question,as I can't see it willingly being placed against a lovely Rioja gran reserva showing the moreish savory cherry characters from across the way compared to the big juicey flavors from the SA Shiraz.

My thing is you don't know til you give it a go.

Have a great day sunshine.

 

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Reply by gregt, May 7, 2011.

Unfortunately they weren't all lovely gran reservas!

Some were.

Some sucked.

After a few hours of that, I needed a break.

Part of the problem is also running out of space in the cellar and needing to clear out some wine that should have been burned thru a long time ago.  Tonight we're having burgers.  I'm going to look for a Sparky shiraz w at least 10 years on it. The original plan was Crozes Hermitage, but what the hell.   Come to NYC and we'll burn thru some of each to make a determination!

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Reply by fibo86, May 9, 2011.

Sounds like the gauntlet has been thrown, your on! If you come down under I'll take you thriugh some of the overseas unknowns.

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