Wine Talk

Snooth User: dmcker

Utterly absurd

Original post by dmcker, Mar 1, 2012.

A couple of news items I was pondering today.

First, Robert Parker came out with his ratings for the 2009 Bordeaux vintage. Ever the masochist, I decided to go look at some prices in the marketplace after the ratings were released. Some samplings:

2009 Chatau Latour                        100 points                  $21,500 a case

2009 Chateau Margaux                   99 points                   $17,500 a case

2009 Chateau Ducru-Beaucaillou  100 points                   $ 4,000 a case

2009 Chateau Pavie                       100 points                   $ 5,400 a case

2009 Chateau Palmer                       97 points                   $ 4,500 a case

2009 Chateau Pichon Comtesse      95 points                   $ 2,900 a case

2009 Chateau Leoville Barton           93+ points                $ 1,490 a case

2009 Chateau Troplong-Mondot        99 points                  $ 2,150 a case

2009 Angelus                                     99 points                  $ 4,925 a case

2009 La Clarence (Haut Brion 2nd)   92 points                  $   950 a case

2009 La Croix (Beaucaillou 2nd)        91 points                 $   580 a case

 

$333/bottle, current release for Beaucaillou? $1,458 for a bottle of Margaux?? $450 for Pavie??? $375 for Palmer???? We're supposed to feel we've scored a bargain with Leoville Barton at $124, or the worst 1st growth 2nd label at $79, or the 2nd of a 2nd at nearly $50????? Again, these are all current releases! None of these wines should be drunk for several years, anyway. And, BTW, these prices are on the low side of the market for each label.

So my question is, who's buying these? And why, when there's so much good wine from other areas at much saner levels of pricing, that will give at least as much pleasure (even though I'll admit I do have an unfortunate weakness for Latour, initiated back when it was affordable--unfortunate in that it can undo small fortunes if excercised these days!)? And what kind of thin-aired atmosphere do the Bordelaise want to try to keep living in? After the Chinese economic bubble bursts, good luck, I want to say, but the devil on my other shoulder then pipes in with 'tough luck, you've earned it'.

To put things in perspective, GregDP's series of articles on the $2500 and $5000 dollar cellars would be made totally irrelevant if someone wanted to buy any of the above. Personally, I'd *much* rather have his $5,000 cellar than a single case of the 2009 Angelus!

The second news item was a marketing director for a Wall St. firm, earning $350,000 a year, crying poor and saying he can barely consider himself a full member of the middle class, living as he does in Manhattan. In that part of that town, trying to keep up with the real players in those firms (marketing directors are just support team players, anyway, with no real playing time in the big games), I can almost commiserate. Especially if he wants to buy a bottle of good Bordeaux out at a restaurant (add their markups to the costs above)!   ;-(    But then he also probably pays a higher percentage of tax than Warren Buffet...

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Replies

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Reply by Richard Foxall, May 9, 2012.

Hey, JD, get a case and have a party.

I actually think that D has a good point: If you got those La Missions at the low end of the range, that's only $150 a bottle for history. If the provenance is what it should be, they are good to go now.  If you seriously want those, I'll go in for 3-4 bottles of your case at the low end price.  We'll work the details of me picking them up--a trip to LA is not out of the question, as you know. We're saying $100+/- is good for the mid-90s Mondavis elsewhere.

This has been my point about the Bordeaux market esp:  They are making you pay more for a wine you and everyone else has not tasted (except the retailers who drank spoofed barrel samples and are going to benefit) than for the best vintages ever, by universal and long historical acclaim.  It's nuts. Meanwhile, you take the chance that there's a fire, earthquake, broken bottle over the next thirty years, or you drink them immediately with Coke.  The en primeur hype is just off the charts. 

And then there are all those 2005s that are still around.  And not impossible to find. In fact, WineHouse SF has some pretty cool magnums.  Maybe I will spend my cash on that.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, May 9, 2012.

JD: Don't get me wrong, I love CT--I asked Snooth for better integration with my tasting notes over there so that people here can see them.  For a way to catalog my bottles and let my friends see what I am drinking and what I think of it, it's fast, easy, has all the history I could want.  (Anyone who is registered on CT, please message me with your handle and I will send you mine if you wish. You can see what's actually in my cellar and most of what I drink outside of restaurants and at friends' houses and tasting events.)

But with entry barriers so low, and such wide appeal, the cross-section at CT covers a lot of the bell curve of wine taste.  Silver Oak lovers, Artemis lovers, emperor-with-no-clothes Burgundy lovers, overripe CdP lovers, bland chardonnay lovers... it's all there.  And a lot of them.  You have seen my notes and I do reference other users, sometimes even pointing out that the ratings they are giving reflect their tastes but not what to expect from the wine they are rating.  (Complain about meaty notes in N. Rhone syrah and incur my wrath.  Just for an example.) For my own reference and when I know what I am looking at, it's useful and I wouldn't be without it.  But the taste band is just too wide for a lot of things.  And the fact that so many folks post after drinking a wine waaaay young kind of reflects the "democratic" nature of it.  When it comes to wine, I'm open minded, but as my own knowledge has exposed my previous and continued ignorance, I do like to have some filters. That's what I have really enjoyed here--after woodshedding on my own for a while, I came here and got a lot of new info and some philosophy in the bargain.

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Reply by JonDerry, May 9, 2012.

I can see the upside or why users would want to drink and review wines young on CT, "be one of the first to review" kind of thing, a la R Jennings. Maybe get more eyeballs looking, etc. However, filtering out the noise is all pretty intuitive to me.

Re: La Mission - Definitely agree that that would be the wine to look at, but I'm in no position to cover a case.  Having you aboard for 3-4 makes it easier, but we'd need at least one or two more people in on it, with someone willing to pay the 1800 outlay.

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Reply by dmcker, May 9, 2012.

The Poyferre is also worth considering, as mentioned, though the La Mission is the creme de la batch. Or you could find out how good and balanced the Pavie used to taste with a case of their '61. Or.....

 

I view 90+% of the CT posts as chaff. That being said, the remaining five to 10% of wheat combines into a great value, though it takes time to discern, which often I can't or don't want to spend. I probably use CT 100 times a year. Some months zero, some weeks 20 times. I have posted nothing of my cellar there, though that may change at some point. I imagine some people on these boards use it much more than that.

Leaving aside the poseurs who deserve a corner of hell all their own, those people who view it as a numbers game seem particularly ridiculous to me. So what if you comment on three or four nose or palate experiences as you rush through? Sometimes those are even off from my experience with the wine, but even if not, they don't begin to capture the gestalt of the wine. Nothing of the holistic synergy that tells me what the wine really is, and whether its multiple components pull together into something special, or not.

But what I was referring to above were the people who post drinking windows based on usually zero, or close to zero, experience with the wine (or most any wine for that matter) over more than a couple of releases. And the people who comment on 'aged' color and flavors from a Bordeaux in the 2001-2004 vintage frame.  People whose oldest wine they might have drunk is maybe a '98 Cos that they think is over the hill (because a] it was made before the chateau went all RPbombastic, b] what I comment on in the next sentence, and c] all they know is raw, young modern fruit anyway!). And of course people who don't let the wine breathe for a suitable amount of time before drinking and commenting, though it sometimes takes some reading between the lines to discern that conclusion.

One problem with the wisdom of crowds is that if leadership (and most everyone loves to follow 'authority'), of whatever sort, heads in the wrong direction, everyone takes that as gospel, passes it further down the line with their own twist, and large numbers of people end up stunted in their tastes and experience and overall orientation. Throw down those false idols and demagogues, I say. Drink (and think) for yourself! Don't even begin to talk about whether or not a wine is aged or open or closed or whatever else until you have experience across a range of years and decades. 

Do you listen to people talking about:

  • painting who don't even know who any Expressionists might be, much less what a hanging scroll from the Yuan Dynasty might look like? Who think Warhol is the epitome (if they even know who he is)?
  • sculpture who only know a Rodin's Thinker or a Michelangelo's David but not a Moore or anything from ancient Greece?
  • pottery who don't even know of it as an art form?
  • Ferraris or Porsches (or Range Rover Sports) who've never driven one, other than maybe on a test drive with a dealer?
  • Etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum?

In effect, that's what you get with huge portions of the CT notes. Of course the good thing is that the more people post and read, the more consciously or unconsciously they can learn and improve, if they care to do so.

And sure, there's absolutely everything to be said about whether someone likes a wine, and gets certain types of pleasure from it. But baseless comparisons pulled from who-knows-where about it, without any real grounding in its context, tend to make me view the comments as heading straight towards worthless. Would be much better, IMHO, if they asked questions in their notes rather than mouthing vapid absolutisms that are often just plain wrong. As a couple of my elders fortunately told me long ago: minds open, judgments reserved until warranted...   ;-)

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Reply by JonDerry, May 10, 2012.

Sounds like CT could use a voice like yourself David

There are definitely a few folks who irk me on there, but then I sometimes tend to follow them all the more, which is just human nature I guess.

Maybe it can tend to be the american idol of wine critics too often, but overall it's an interesting social experiment, connecting many in the wine world. I've always thought of us as one of the more highly evolved demographics, but maybe that just isn't the case. Afterall, there are quite a few poseur rock bands and public figures out there whose fans are even more annoying.

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Reply by dmcker, May 11, 2012.

Not to muddy the waters further, but I was looking at the KLWines site for some Mondavi prices and, as often is the case, some other labels got regurgitated during the search process. In this case I wasn't that annoyed, though, because it's a very interesting aged vertical collection from Napa.

Seems like something else worth pooling resources for, though I'd prioritize it below those earlier wines from the '60s and the '70s....

 

 

 

1983-2002 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red Vertical 
Bid on this 19-bottle vertical of Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red, featuring the debut-vintage 1983 (90RP), 1984 (92RP), 1985 (91RP), 1986 (93RP), 1987 (96RP, 92WS), 1988 (91RP), 1989 (92RP, 91WS), 1990 (95RP, 93ST, 91WS), 1991 (98RP, 96ST, 93WS), 1992 (95RP, 92ST), 1994 (99RP, 93ST, 91WS), 1995 (93RP, 93ST), 1996 (95RP, 93ST, 90WS), 1997 (95ST, 94RP, 93WS, 93WE), 1998 (91WS, 90ST), 1999 (91ST, 91WE), 2000 (90ST, 90WE), 2001 (98RP, 94WE, 93ST), and 2002 (96RP, 92ST). *No wine was produced by the winery in 1993. A Napa Valley classic, Dominus's winemaker Christian Moueix has produced profound Cabernet Sauvignon from the Napanook vineyard since the debut vintage in 1983. This stunning lot offers the opportunity to taste the evolution of this famed Napa producer's flagship offering. 

This lot contains the following items:
1983 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1984 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1985 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1986 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1987 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1988 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1989 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1990 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1991 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1992 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1994 Dominus Estate Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1995 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1996 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1997 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1998 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
1999 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
2000 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
2001 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)
2002 Dominus Napa Valley Proprietary Red (qty: 1)


End Date: May 11 2012 3:30PM PT

Current Bid:$2,250.00  

 

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Reply by JonDerry, May 11, 2012.

Good to see so many of those bottles from the 80's still drinking well today. The 1991 looks really popular. 

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Reply by dmcker, May 18, 2012.

Holy crap, BP wine has dug out another cellar with some pieces of CA wine history in it, apparently in very drinkable condition. This one has bottles you'll be hardpressed to find now much less in the future, and which will almost certainly blow your socks off.

Aside from some interesting reds from Oz and stickies from Bordeaux and aged excellent rieslings from Germany, look at those reds from Bordeaux! '59 was one of the greatest vintages of last century--real meaning of that phrase, not Bordelaise marketeering. My guess is they'll be better than the 2009s over time, but then I won't be around to have to payoff half a century from now if I'm wrong. I do know that '59s have provided some of the best drinking experiences I've *ever* had.

Then look to the Californians: besides all those Turley zins (you can have them) and Saxum syrahs (I'll take them), there are some real gems from Napa's (and Sonoma's) past. And even though the prices seem ridiculous compared to what I remember of them back when, they're steals when compared to current Bordeaux prices, leaving aside the fact that they'll uniquely educate your palate. And they're ready to drink now! Louis Martini and Charles Krug cabs from the '60s, a '71 Ridge Eisele, Phelps zins from the '70s (and Mayacamas late harvests from then, too, if they float your boat), some Duckhorn merlots from the '80s that would be educational, a mag of Mayacamas chardonnay from the '90s (maybe approaching its peak in just a few years!), Mondavis and Stag's Leaps from the '80s and '90s, etc., etc.

This is the kind of collection where if you have the wherewithal alone or in a group you get to the collector ahead of a BP and buy the whole thing. Then if you're like me just unload most of the Turley, while keeping a few for curiosity sake and gifting. Drink all the rest, smacking your lips with satisfaction all the while, in several cases wagging your head in awe. 

And yes, Jon, these you can buy single bottles of.  ;-)

 

Wonder how long these'll stay in the BP storage facility.....

 

 

 

 

THE OLD AND THE NEW - A FASCINATING COLLECTION

Australia
2001 Charles Melton Cabernet Sauvignon Barossa Valley, 24 x 750mL -- $20 WA90
2001 Charles Melton Shiraz Barossa Valley, 12 x 750mL -- $25 WA91
2004 Kilikanoon Shiraz Covenant, 9 x 750mL -- $27 WA94
1991 Penfolds Cabernet Sauvignon Bin 407, 1 x 750mL -- $49 
1971 Penfolds Grange Shiraz, 1 x 750mL -- $895 WA96, WS95
2003 Shirvington Cabernet Sauvignon McLaren Vale, 12 x 750mL -- $39 WA94
2004 Two Hands Shiraz Lily`s Garden, 6 x 750mL -- $49 WA95, WS94
1992 Yalumba Shiraz The Octavius, 1 x 750mL -- $49 WS92

France--Bordeaux--Dessert
1957 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $199 vts, ltl
1957 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $199 ts, lnl
1957 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $199 vts, pc
1957 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $199 ts, stl, scc
1957 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $199 vts, dc, stl
1969 Coutet Sauternes, 11 x 750mL -- $75 lstl, pc
1969 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $75 
1969 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $75 vts, scc
1969 Coutet Sauternes, 3 x 750mL -- $75 vts, pc
1969 Coutet Sauternes, 4 x 750mL -- $75 vts
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 5 x 750mL -- $75 vts
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 2 x 750mL -- $75 sbsl
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $75 vts, sbsl
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $75 ts, wrl
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 2 x 750mL -- $75 vts, wrl, sbsl, spc
1970 Coutet Sauternes, 1 x 750mL -- $75 wrl, sbsl
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 1 x 750mL -- $99 ts, cuc, exposed cork
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 6 x 750mL -- $99 ts, cc, sbsl
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 2 x 750mL -- $99 hs, sbsl, cc
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 1 x 750mL -- $99 
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 1 x 750mL -- $99 hs, scc
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 1 x 750mL -- $99 swisl
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 3 x 750mL -- $99 vts, sbsl
1970 Doisy Vedrines, 3 x 750mL -- $99 vts, sbsl
1970 Guiraud, 12 x 750mL -- $75 CONDITIONS??
1970 Guiraud, 2 x 750mL -- $75 ts, pc
1970 Guiraud, 7 x 750mL -- $75 vts, wrc
1970 Lafon Contigu Yquem, 3 x 750mL -- $100 vts, sbsl
1970 Lafon Contigu Yquem, 5 x 750mL -- $100 ts, sbsl
1970 Lafon Contigu Yquem, 2 x 750mL -- $100 hs, sbsl
1970 Lafon Contigu Yquem, 1 x 750mL -- $100 htms, sbsl
1970 Lafon Contigu Yquem, 1 x 750mL -- $100 ts, bsl
1970 Sigalas Rabaud, 1 x 750mL -- $59 
1970 Sigalas Rabaud, 1 x 750mL -- $59 ssos
1970 Sigalas Rabaud, 1 x 750mL -- $59 sos

France--Bordeaux--Red
1955 Brane Cantenac, 1 x 750mL -- $229 ts, trc, scc
1955 Brane Cantenac, 1 x 750mL -- $249 vts, sbsl, scc
1989 Haut Brion, 2 x 750mL -- $1395 WA100, ST97, WS100 lstl
1989 La Conseillante, 2 x 750mL -- $259 WA97
1989 Lafite Rothschild, 1 x 750mL -- $895 WS99
1959 Lanessan, 1 x 750mL -- $199 lnl, wisl
1959 Lanessan, 1 x 750mL -- $199 htms, ltl, sbsl
1959 Leoville Las Cases, 1 x 750mL -- $395 WS96 ts, bsl, scc
1959 Leoville Las Cases, 1 x 750mL -- $295 WS96 htms, bsl, scc
1989 Mouton Rothschild, 1 x 750mL -- $375 WS99 vts
1960 Pichon Longueville Baron, 1 x 750mL -- $195 sbsl
1964 Prieure Lichine, 1 x 750mL -- $99 vts, stl

France--Burgundy--Red
1947 Armand Roux Richebourg, 1 x 750mL -- $495 6cm, ltl, lbsl
1969 Domaine Jean Gros Richebourg, 1 x 750mL -- $695 WA92 3cm, bsl, dc
1969 Domaine Jean Gros Richebourg, 1 x 750mL -- $695 WA92 3.5cm, bsl, ltl
1969 Domaine Jean Gros Richebourg, 1 x 750mL -- $695 WA92 3.5cm, lbsl

France--Champagne
1996 Louis Roederer Cristal, 1 x 750mL -- $359 WA95, ST94+, WS94

Germany
1959 Bischofliches Priesterseminar Dhronhofberger Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $295 
1975 Dr. Pauly Bergweiler Bernkasteler Bratenhofchen Riesling Auslese Eiswein, 1 x 750mL -- $150 ltl
1959 Egon Muller Scharzhofberger Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $1295 
1971 Hubert Schmitz Wiltinger Braunfels Riesling Spatlese, 1 x 750mL -- $45 3cm, spc
1971 Hubert Schmitz Wiltinger Braunfels Riesling Spatlese, 1 x 750mL -- $45 sscl
1971 Hubert Schmitz Wiltinger Braunfels Riesling Spatlese, 6 x 750mL -- $45 
1971 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $395 4cm
1971 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $395 4.5cm
1971 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $395 4cm, sos
1971 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 2 x 750mL -- $295 5cm
1971 JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 3 x 750mL -- $295 6cm, lstl
1959 JJ Prum Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $395 5cm
1971 Johann Kirchen Oberemmeler Altenberg Riesling Spatlese, 2 x 750mL -- $25 lstl
1971 Schloss Eltz Eltviller Sonnenberg Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $125 lstl, sscl
1962 Schloss Vollrads Riesling Schlossabzug Fass 255, 1 x 750mL -- $145 4.5cm
1953 Staatsweinguter Rauenthaler Gehrn Riesling Auslese, 1 x 750mL -- $135 
1971 SWG Eltville Hocheimer Kirchenstuck Riesling Spatlese, 6 x 750mL -- $50 
1971 SWG Eltville Hocheimer Kirchenstuck Riesling Spatlese, 1 x 750mL -- $50 tl
1959 von Oetlinger Marcobrunner Riesling Spatlese Kabinet, 1 x 750mL -- $125 3.5cm, ssos, sbsl

Italy
1997 Caparzo Brunello di Montalcino La Casa, 1 x 750mL -- $65 WS94
1995 Soldera Brunello di Montalcino Riserva Intistieti, 1 x 750mL -- $299 WA98

Portugal
1965 Caves Messias Vintage Port Quinta Do Cachao, 6 x 750mL -- $75 
1967 Caves Messias Vintage Port Quinta Do Cachao, 6 x 750mL -- $75 
1970 Caves Messias Vintage Port Quinta Do Cachao, 12 x 750mL -- $75 
1970 Caves Messias Vintage Port Quinta Do Cachao, 6 x 750mL -- $75 
1960 Taylor Vintage Port, 6 x 750mL -- $175 bsl, crk, ssos
1963 Taylor Vintage Port, 6 x 750mL -- $299 WA95, WS97 bsl, crk, ssos
1958 Tuke Holdsworth Port, 2 x 750mL -- $195 
1958 Tuke Holdsworth Port, 1 x 750mL -- $195 sscl, crk, ssos
1958 Tuke Holdsworth Port, 1 x 750mL -- $195 crk, ssos
1958 Tuke Holdsworth Port, 2 x 750mL -- $195

US--Cabernet Blends
2000 Beaulieu Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon Private Reserve Georges de Latour, 8 x 750mL -- $55 WS92-94
2008 Beaulieu Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon Private Reserve Georges de Latour, 12 x 750mL -- $68 WA93, ST91-94
1962 Beaulieu Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon Rutherford, 2 x 750mL -- $95 tl
2009 Beaulieu Vineyard Proprietary Red Tapestry Reserve, 8 x 750mL -- $29 
2005 Carter Cabernet Sauvignon Beckstoffer To Kalon Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $115 WS95
2005 Carter Cabernet Sauvignon Revilo, 2 x 750mL -- $50 
2005 Carter Cabernet Sauvignon Revilo, 2 x 750mL -- $50 wisl
1960 Charles Krug Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $99 bsl
1964 Charles Krug Cabernet Sauvignon Vintage Selection, 1 x 750mL -- $149 bsl
1991 Clos du Montagne Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $25 sscl
1991 Clos du Montagne Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 2 x 750mL -- $25 
1993 Clos du Val Cabernet Sauvignon Stag`s Leap District, 1 x 750mL -- $49 
1999 Darioush Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley Signature, 1 x 1.5L -- $149 WS94
2001 Dominus Proprietary Red Wine, 3 x 750mL -- $159 WA98
1983 Eisele Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon, 1 x 750mL -- $175 sbsl, no capsule
1993 Helena View Cabernet Franc Johnston Vineyard Estate, 1 x 750mL -- $15 signed bottle
2007 Hewitt Cabernet Sauvignon Rutherford, 1 x 1.5L -- $115 WA93, WS92
1997 Lokoya Cabernet Sauvignon Diamond Mountain, 6 x 750mL -- $135 WA95
1997 Lokoya Cabernet Sauvignon Howell Mountain, 12 x 750mL -- $125 WA93
1960 Louis Martini Cabernet Sauvignon California Mountain, 2 x 750mL -- $149 
1989 Monticello Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Corley Reserve, 12 x 750mL -- $25 
1985 Monticello Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Jefferson Cuvee, 1 x 1.5L -- $75 ts, cc, sbsl
2004 Neal Family Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 12 x 750mL -- $39 
2007 Neal Family Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $39 
1997 Neal Schifflett Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 5 x 750mL -- $49 
N.V. Opus One Overture, 1 x 750mL -- $75 
1983 Opus One Proprietary Red Wine, 3 x 750mL -- $209 lstl, cc
1995 Peter Michael Winery Proprietary Red Les Pavots, 1 x 750mL -- $129 WA91, WS93
1996 Peter Michael Winery Proprietary Red Les Pavots, 1 x 750mL -- $129 WA96, WS96
1997 Peter Michael Winery Proprietary Red Les Pavots, 2 x 750mL -- $165 WA96
2008 Provenance Cabernet Sauvignon Rutherford, 8 x 750mL -- $25 
1971 Ridge Cabernet Sauvignon Eisele Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $695 WA94 vts
1966 Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $395 tl, bsl 
1994 Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon Oakville, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA90
1989 Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve, 1 x 750mL -- $55 dc
1982 Robert Pepi Cabernet Sauvignon Vine Hill, 1 x 1.5L -- $75 
1985 Rombauer Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 1.5L -- $139 
1986 Saddleback Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 1.5L -- $89 writing on label
1994 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon Alexander Valley, 6 x 750mL -- $65 WA93
1996 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon Alexander Valley, 6 x 750mL -- $59 WA92
N.V. Souverain Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $25 6cm, sbsl
1998 Stag`s Leap Wine Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Fay Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $59 
1998 Stag`s Leap Wine Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon SLV, 2 x 750mL -- $69 
1989 Stag`s Leap Wine Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon SLV / Fay, 2 x 750mL -- $75 
1998 Stag`s Leap Wine Cellars Proprietary Red Cask 23, 1 x 750mL -- $109 
1999 Sterling Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley Reserve, 9 x 750mL -- $45 WS91
2000 Sterling Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley Reserve, 11 x 750mL -- $40 
2005 Sterling Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon Napa Valley Reserve, 4 x 750mL -- $35 
2008 Sterling Vineyards Proprietary Red Reserve, 30 x 750mL -- $20

US--Chardonnay
1996 Kent Rasmussen Chardonnay Reserve, 9 x 750mL -- $5 
1997 Mayacamas Chardonnay, 1 x 1.5L -- $75 
1993 Robert Mondavi Chardonnay Reserve, 1 x 750mL -- $15 WA93, WS91

US--Dessert
1977 Harbor Winery Mission del Sol Amador County, 1 x 750mL -- $25

US--Merlot
1999 Duckhorn Merlot Howell Mountain, 1 x 750mL -- $55 WS92
1986 Duckhorn Merlot Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $50 lstl
1988 Duckhorn Merlot Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $38 lstl
1990 Duckhorn Merlot Three Palms Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $89 
1990 Duckhorn Merlot Three Palms Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $89 lstl
1994 Rutherford Hill Merlot, 2 x 750mL -- $15 
1990 Stag`s Leap Wine Cellars Merlot Napa Valley, 4 x 750mL -- $39 lstl

US--Other Whites
2009 Rosenblum Cellars Viognier Kathy`s Cuvee, 1 x 750mL -- $9

US--Pinot Noir
1998 Cameron Pinot Noir Clos Electrique, 1 x 1.5L -- $75 lnl
1970 Hanzell Pinot Noir, 1 x 750mL -- $195 4cm
1973 Hanzell Pinot Noir, 3 x 750mL -- $175 
1974 Hanzell Pinot Noir, 1 x 750mL -- $295 
1996 Keegan Pinot Noir, 5 x 750mL -- $35 
1999 Keegan Pinot Noir, 8 x 750mL -- $25  
1994 Panther Creek Pinot Noir Reserve, 1 x 750mL -- $29 WA90
1990 Robert Mondavi Pinot Noir Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $19 
1992 Robert Mondavi Pinot Noir Reserve, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA92

US--Syrah/Grenache
2006 Saxum Proprietary Red 32 James Berry Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $175 WA97
2005 Saxum Proprietary Red 44 James Berry Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $155 WA96, ST94
2005 Saxum Proprietary Red Booker Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $99 WA94, WS95
2006 Saxum Proprietary Red Booker Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $99 WA94, ST92, WS94
2007 Saxum Proprietary Red Booker Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $235 WA99
2009 Saxum Proprietary Red Booker Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $139 WA96+
2007 Saxum Proprietary Red Heartstone Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $139 WA98, WS97
2008 Saxum Proprietary Red Heartstone Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $95 WA93, WS95
2005 Saxum Proprietary Red James Berry Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $119 WA95+
2006 Saxum Proprietary Red James Berry Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $135 WA95, ST93
2007 Saxum Proprietary Red James Berry Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $499 WA100, WS98
2008 Saxum Proprietary Red James Berry Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $209 WA98, WS97
2009 Saxum Proprietary Red James Berry Vineyard, 3 x 750mL -- $175 WA98
2009 Saxum Proprietary Red Paderewski Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $145 WA97
2003 Saxum Rocket Block James Berry Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $195 WA98
2002 Saxum Syrah Broken Stones, 1 x 750mL -- $179 WA96
2006 Saxum Syrah Broken Stones, 1 x 750mL -- $149 WA97, WS96
2007 Saxum Syrah Broken Stones, 3 x 750mL -- $139 WA96+, ST95, WS96
2008 Saxum Syrah Broken Stones, 2 x 750mL -- $109 WA94, ST93, WS93
2009 Saxum Syrah Broken Stones, 3 x 750mL -- $115 WA96
2003 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 1 x 750mL -- $119 WA95, ST93
2006 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 1 x 750mL -- $129 WA96+, ST95
2007 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 1 x 750mL -- $249 WA99, WS98
2008 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 1 x 750mL -- $139 WA96
2009 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 3 x 750mL -- $129 WA94
2009 Saxum Syrah James Berry Vineyard Bone Rock, 1 x 1.5L -- $259 WA94
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Petite Sirah Hayne Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $99 WA96
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Petite Sirah Hayne Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $75 WA96 sscl
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Petite Sirah Hayne Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $59 WA93-95, ST93-95
1993 Zaca Mesa Syrah Chapel Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $25

US--Zinfandel
1996 Beringer Zinfandel North Coast, 3 x 750mL -- $15 
1975 Joseph Phelps Zinfandel Alexander Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $45 
1975 Joseph Phelps Zinfandel Alexander Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $45 lstl
1975 Joseph Phelps Zinfandel Alexander Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $45 bn
1976 Mayacamas Zinfandel Late Harvest, 1 x 750mL -- $65 bn
1976 Mayacamas Zinfandel Late Harvest, 1 x 750mL -- $55 hs, ssos
1976 Mayacamas Zinfandel Late Harvest, 1 x 1.5L -- $149 
1978 Mayacamas Zinfandel Late Harvest, 1 x 750mL -- $55 
1984 Mayacamas Zinfandel Late Harvest, 1 x 750mL -- $45 sbsl
1966 Parducci Zinfandel, 1 x 750mL -- $25 5cm, lstl
1966 Parducci Zinfandel, 1 x 750mL -- $25 5cm
1966 Parducci Zinfandel, 3 x 750mL -- $25 5.5cm
1966 Parducci Zinfandel, 2 x 750mL -- $25 lstl
N.V. Parducci Zinfandel, 3 x 750mL -- $25 6cm, lstl
1970 Souverain Zinfandel Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $15 htms, dc, sbsl, scc
1970 Souverain Zinfandel Napa Valley, 1 x 750mL -- $15 htms, sos
1996 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Black Sears Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $95 WA94
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 5 x 750mL -- $39 WA89-91, ST90 sscl
1998 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA90, ST91
1998 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA90, ST91 trc
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $45 WA92, ST92
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $45 WA92, ST92 scl
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $45 ST92
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $45 ST92 trc
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 10 x 750mL -- $39 WA91, ST91
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $39 WA91-93, ST91
2003 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dogtown Vineyard, 8 x 750mL -- $39 WA91-93, ST91
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $37 WA90-92, ST91 sscl
1998 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $33 WA93, ST91
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 5 x 750mL -- $35 WA91, ST92
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $35 WA91, ST92 sscl
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 3 x 750mL -- $35 WA92, ST92
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $35 WA92, ST92 sscl
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 6 x 750mL -- $39 WA92, ST92
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA92, ST92 sscl
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $59 WA91-93, ST90
2003 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Duarte Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $29 ST90
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Dusi Vineyard, 6 x 750mL -- $55 ST92
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Hayne Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $65 WA93, ST91-93
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Juvenile, 13 x 750mL -- $49 WA89
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Juvenile, 1 x 750mL -- $49 WA89 scl
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Juvenile, 1 x 750mL -- $49 WA89 sscl
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Juvenile, 13 x 750mL -- $39 WA90-92
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Juvenile, 1 x 750mL -- $39 WA90-92 sscl
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Mead Ranch, 8 x 750mL -- $39 WA91
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Mead Ranch, 4 x 750mL -- $45 WA92
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Mead Ranch, 1 x 750mL -- $45 WA92 sscl
2003 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Mead Ranch, 4 x 750mL -- $33 WA90-92
2003 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Mead Ranch, 2 x 750mL -- $33 WA90-92 sscl
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 3 x 750mL -- $59 WA94-96
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $59 WA94-96 sscl
1998 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 4 x 750mL -- $59 WA92
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $59 WA95
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 1 x 750mL -- $59 WA95 scl
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 3 x 750mL -- $45 WA92
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 6 x 750mL -- $79 WA95
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 2 x 750mL -- $75 WA94-97
2003 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Moore Earthquake Vineyard, 5 x 750mL -- $49 WA93-95 sscl
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 1 x 750mL -- $50 WA92-94
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 3 x 750mL -- $50 WA92-94 scl
1997 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 3 x 750mL -- $50 WA92-94 sscl
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 4 x 750mL -- $45 WA93
1999 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 1 x 750mL -- $45 WA93 sscl
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Old Vines, 28 x 750mL -- $29 WA88
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Pesenti, 15 x 750mL -- $49 WA92
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Pesenti, 1 x 750mL -- $49 WA92 sscl
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Pesenti, 13 x 750mL -- $39 WA92-94, ST93
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Turley Estate, 3 x 750mL -- $39 WA93
2000 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Turley Estate, 3 x 750mL -- $39 WA93 sscl
2001 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Turley Estate, 2 x 750mL -- $75 WA95
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Turley Estate, 5 x 750mL -- $59 WA92-94
2002 Turley Wine Cellars Zinfandel Turley Estate, 2 x 750mL -- $59 WA92-94 ssc

667
1099
Reply by zufrieden, May 18, 2012.

OK. So the length of this thread is now truly utterly absurd.  We know that these prices are absurd.  Let's move on.  Please.

20
6219
Reply by dmcker, May 18, 2012.

What's wrong with a long thread? At least you know where to go for certain content...  ;-)

 

Plus, in addition to the philosophizing and economic market overviews, there really are some good buys in some of my posts (and no, I'm not a merchant myself, nor do I have any connection to such). So Zuf, you don't do much online ordering, there in the far north?

667
1099
Reply by zufrieden, May 18, 2012.

Its utterly absurd.

:-)

Z.

20
6219
Reply by dmcker, May 18, 2012.

I'd be falling asleep, too, if I were letting governmental organs from back east determine what wine I could drink.  ;-)

667
1099
Reply by zufrieden, May 18, 2012.

Yeah, I know.  I'm just having a bit of fun - as per usual.  The fact that this thread has elicited such a response is evidence of a certain issue we all know and love.  I will try to set a better example and develop a few new forums.

Cheers!

 

Z.

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