Wine Talk

Snooth User: Really Big Al

Turns out red wine might not be good for you after all

Posted by Really Big Al, Jan 7, 2016.

I saw this on BT.com (UK site) today, and it looked interesting.  What do you guys think?

Red wine's supposed health benefits are set to be rubbished by Government experts rewriting the rule book on the nation's alcohol consumption, according to reports.

Red wine's supposed health benefits are set to be rubbished by Government experts rewriting the rule book on the nation's alcohol consumption, according to reports.

A landmark report by Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies published on Friday will destroy the long-held belief that red wine can cut the risk of cancer, heart disease and memory loss when drunk in moderation, The Sun reported.

In the first overhaul of alcohol guidelines for two decades, doctors will reportedly warn that there is no "safe" level of alcohol consumption and drinking just a small amount may in fact increase the risk of some cancers.

The review was launched in 2012 and its findings are expected to reflect the latest research that links even occasional alcohol consumption to health problems in later life.

The Government currently advises men do not drink more than three to four units per day - up to 21 units or less per week - while women should drink no more than two to three units a day, or 14 units per week.

Under the new guidelines the gender difference will be thrown out and drinkers will be to keep off the booze for at least two days a week in order to allow their livers to recover.

A recent study by University College London found patients who gave up for four weeks saw benefits for their liver function, blood pressure and cholesterol levels and were also at lower risk of developing diabetes and liver disease.

And a report by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) advised middle-aged people there is "no safe level of alcohol consumption".

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Replies

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 7, 2016.

Here's what I think:  I love the word "rubbished." 

But on a serious note, I didn't read much further.  Why?  Because my studies show that worrying about stuff like this is really, really bad for your health.  You know who lived a really long time and always seemed pretty stoked?  Frank IndelicatoRobert Mondavi. You know who is still alive and very cool?  Peter Mondavi. Francesco Clerico. 

These guys didn't read studies saying wine is good for you.  (Robert Mondavi had someone in marketing do it.) They made wine, they drank wine, and they didn't worry about that. 

BTW, Clerico smokes like a damn chimney.  Don't talk to him about cancer.  He was expanding his winery at 82 years young, driving a forklift after a few glasses, and having a ball when Jamie, GdP and I visited him. 

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Reply by EMark, Jan 7, 2016.

Oh well, I guess I'm going to die.

 

 

 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 7, 2016.

With a big smile (full of purple stained teeth) on your face.

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 7, 2016.

Obviously the UK folks are linked in close with the WHO (plus they have to deal with living in the capital of binge drinking). Only goes to show that there's so much semi-science regarding health and diet out there that anyone with an agenda is able to pick and choose between alternative, clashing reports to support their own (conflicting with others') position.

I've tended to listen to my body when it tells me what it wants to eat and drink. Not so good when I go against those instincts at the wrong time. Generally I seem to be validated by later (often by decades) reports that 'rubbish' what had been mainstream 'health'-guideline pablum before.  You wanna avoid fats? I'll find a report for you. You wanna eat fats, ditto. You wanna consume carbos? Ditto. Wanna avoid carbos? Ditto. Then there's all that goes against clear logic and evidence such as the current anti-gluten industry. I just couldn't believe margarine was good for you when I started reading about it as an increasingly-more-difficultly influenced teenager back in the day who liked his grandmother's scrambled eggs made with butter a lot better than his mom's made with margarine (much less the taste of margarine on sliced bread vs. that of butter). Guess what, give it two or three decades and that was totally debunked.

And I guess some poor sucker who listens to what the UK's Chief Medical Officer publishes under her name about what he/she is supposed to eat and drink will have to wait for a revisory report that is sure to appear a decade or two from now.

I'm certainly not waiting, even while visiting England or Scotland.  ;-)

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Reply by outthere, Jan 7, 2016.

You gotta die of something.

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Reply by GregT, Jan 7, 2016.

Well, it's kind of funny but last week I was reading about how animals, especially primates, have a preference for alcohol and it seems to be a deep-seated human desire that we've evolved to accommodate. And there's some theory that the development of settlements and towns and villages was due not so much for agriculture, but to ensure that there would be a ready source of fermented something.

Binge drinking and downing whole bottles of vodka aren't good - as with so many other things, we can indulge in limitless supplies these days and we pay the price. Also, it's pretty clear that some things are just no good for you. There are always outliers who smoke and live to 92 - the studies deal mostly with probability, not certainty. But I'm not going to take up smoking in the hopes that I'm one of those guys, and I figure people who do smoke these days can't be all that bright - there are zero possible health benefits and it's very clear that the chemicals are toxic since you can use them to kill aphids and pests on your houseplants.

But wine? I think the traditional English diet is probably worse for you than wine is.

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Reply by Really Big Al, Jan 8, 2016.

All very interesting comments.  A few years ago I felt justified in a daily glass of red wine with dinner.  I read several places that it was good for you and my subsequent blood tests have indicated a good level of HDLs.  I'd like to keep that feeling of goodness as a nice red wine warms my heart.  I think this evening calls for a nice red (we enjoyed a Duckhorn 2010 Merlot last night) since I'm home alone to eat left-over pizza and my spousal unit (Sandra) is out with her girlfriend to see a performance at The Kennedy Center.

Let me just take a trip down to the wine cellar and see what I can find.....

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Reply by MJET, Jan 8, 2016.

You go RBA! 

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Reply by Really Big Al, Jan 8, 2016.

Repris 2011 Zinfandel.  Most excellent.  Pizza is all gone though.

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Reply by Joyy, Jan 8, 2016.

Actually, everything could kill u, even yourself, coz u can suicide, so dying is such a normal thing, why not drinking wines to enjoy ur life

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 9, 2016.

Many types of anthropologists and other interested parties claim that civilization (as opposed to non-literate hunters and gatherers who tended to traipse around the countryside) began because groups of people needed to stay put to raise and harvest their grain crops to use for fermenting beer. Not bread, but that foamy liquid. Society evolved from there. The ability to implement 'sedentarism' marked the beginning of civilization, but apparently laid the groundwork for a number of health problems, too. Tens of millennia later, it's back to the paleo diet.

Britain really is the best bet as ground zero for binge drinking. I know from time there as well as time with transplanted Brits in other countries. More public drunkenness than I've seen anywhere in the States except at Frat parties, and it cuts across ages and social classes (though Japan gives them a run for the money). So I'm guessing the UK's Chief Medical Officer may be influenced more by that than pure science.

 

Here's an excerpt from an article in The Telegraph about further clarification of her position:

England's Chief Medical Officer has defended a move to issue new guidance on drinking by suggesting people should drink tea after a day's work instead of a glass of wine.

Dame Sally Davies also said the idea that drinking a glass of red wine a day is good for you is an "old wives' tale", saying there was a need to update the advice based on new scientific evidence.

Speaking on ITV's Good Morning Britain, Dame Sally said: "I like a glass of wine. But actually what I do when I go home because I believe you do need - many of us - a ritual, is drink a glass of tea, or cup of tea, instead of a glass of wine and save a glass of wine for a special occasion."

 

 

Damn, anybody have a text, email or phone contact for Dame Sally? I really want to go party with her!

Wait a minute, I'm beginning to sound like one of those take-the-piss, excess-lusting Brits I know...

 

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 10, 2016.

Of course the Publicans, amongst others, had to answer back:

"Reacting to the new guidelines this morning Brigid Simmonds, chief executive of the British Beer and Pub Association, stressed that a recommendation of 14 units per week for men put the UK “well out of line” with comparable countries including the US, which advises 24.5, France 26, Italy 31.5 and Spain 35 units a week.

“In other countries, most guidelines recognise the difference in terms of physiology and metabolism between men and women”, she added.

Looks like the Chief Medical Officer's PR machine is in well-oiled motion. Lots of snaps of her trying to portray her as a woman of the people. Elected office after this?

 

 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 12, 2016.

I've hung out with the Surgeon General, and I've hung out with good bartenders.  I'd rather have another round poured by Chili Bill than hang out with the Surgeon General, but that's me.  In any case, this cup of tea nonsense smacks of a new puritanism.  If you're British and want to live  longer, get off the blighted isle and marry a non-Brit.  I bet 90% of their problems come from the tiny gene pool--congenitally weak chins, rotten teeth, dreadful pattern baldness at an early age.  And that's just the royals! 

I go back to what I said about the Mondavis, et al.

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 12, 2016.

Fox, and I felt bad talking about their weather! Jeeezzzzz! And that gene pool (other than for the royals) isn't all that small. They did originate that easy-to-use phrase 'shag' after all.  ;-)   Plenty of Brits traveling offshore, and plenty of former Commonwealth country folks now born and raised on that island. Perhaps only the US pool would be larger, especially relative to population.

But then again a lot of us on these boards born in the States have plenty of British genes. Mine are at least half so (ignoring where the Norse and the Angles and the Saxons and the Celts originally came from). Thus we do speak from experience when discussing letting our feet (facilitated by ships and planes) do the voting.

Sorry, Duncan, not really picking on you. Just that Dame Sally is cutting such a silly rug. And it is better to live where good wine is made and there's sunlight in the wintertime... :-)

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 12, 2016.

I'm English, Scots, Irish, but also German, French, and Italian, but I think marrying a Semitic woman from middle Europe was probably doing my kids a big favor.  Whether it's the Amish, orthodox Jews, or any other group that isolates itself, the problems of being inbred are far worse than the problems engendered by having a couple drinks every night. 

Dunc, we're confident from your posts that you are an exceptional human.  But any time you want to get out of the rain, you are more than welcome here in California.

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Reply by napagirl68, Jan 18, 2016.

DMCKER: Obviously the UK folks are linked in close with the WHO (plus they have to deal with living in the capital of binge drinking).

Yes, exactly what D-man says.  I posted an early article by WHO going after alcohol as the cause of all things terrible a year or so back.  The Brits drink like fishes, and the NHS will say anything to slow it down.  And they are in bed with WHO, so no surprise there. And what about the horrible diet?  Who's to say that alcohol is solely to blame. 

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Reply by napagirl68, Jan 18, 2016.

Link to thread a year ago:

http://www.snooth.com/talk/topic/is-prohibition-on-its-way/

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 18, 2016.

Not to mention the problem drinking in the UK seems to stack up around vodka swilling and extra strengthTenants Lager.

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Reply by dmcker, Jan 19, 2016.

"Not to mention the problem drinking in the UK seems to stack up around vodka swilling and extra strengthTenants Lager."

Now that's an oversimplification if I've ever seen one!  ;-) 

Whether it's lager or bitters or stout or cider or wine or whisky or GT's or other distilled liquids, all forms are fuel to stoke the fires, to be consumed in copious amounts producing attitudinal/behavioral bonfires that would make Guy Fawkes proud (or rather those Protestants who celebrated the foiling of his Gunpowder Treason plot when he tried to blow up the House of Lords and King James with it--wonder if we'll be seeing any such terror-foiled celebrations in the future?).

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Jan 19, 2016.

Of course it was an oversimplification.  But I don't see too many soccer hooligans drinking 1st growths or Krug champagne, unless it's the latter to celebrate their team winning.  Perhaps you could get clocked by someone wielding an empty bottle from a village- level Burg--hey, those are pretty stout and suitable as clubs--but you would never see it coming.  Not quite as vicious as a piece of fresh fruit, but dangerous nonetheless.

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