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Snooth User: Avv

Shiraz or Syrah. Aussie v world

Original post by Avv, Jul 30, 2010.

Which do we prefer, Aussie shiraz or rest of world syrah

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Replies

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Reply by drinkersdigest, Sep 10, 2010.

@ Stephen Harvey: Your earlier point with reference to Yellow Tail and Jacobs Creek being the worlds view of us falls short of Jeffords point, and mine. You also don't elaborate on the significance of our changing cuisine with winemaking styles. When was the last time you thought sherry styles were a pivotal cog in the local winemaking scene?

No matter the significance of the establishment that surrrounds the generations of grape growers in the Barossa and manages to produce obscure and unnecessary wines like "The Laird". Time marches on and taste, like all things, evolves. You concede that the marketers and producers missed the boat on sauvignon blanc, will they miss this one too?

Philip White, my current favourite Australian scribe has written an article questioning and in this unique instance, qualifying those old patch vineyards. Old Cows... who wants one?

Jefford has republished. Shooting down Wolf Blass's view of Australia as a nation of blenders, and personally I agree with him.

In as much as the cost of freight is involved, and not to mention the suggested implementation for a price on carbon, I trust you've noticed the lighter bottles??  Constellation regularly ship the equivalent distances of Napa to Mississippi for blending components to make one wine. HUH? (And the turkeys at AVL advocate for a style over substance method to viticulture in Australia).

Let's go back to the drawing board, seek out the varieties that will suit Australia and have a look again. Max Allen has stated greek varietals like Xynomavro and Assyrtriko would find a home here. I'm waiting for a decent Nero D'avola. So lets forget Sangiovese and focus on Tempranillo, and perhaps with the exception of a few pockets at altitude reconsider Shiraz's place at the head of every table in the Barossa. 

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Reply by Charles Emilio, Sep 10, 2010.

Speaking of Barossa, Torbreck are realeasing a $700 bottle of wine to compete with grange.

Thats either the most stupid idea or most genius idea ive ever heard. I cant decide which.

Actually, I give in, its a genius idea. There will be plenty of wannabees out there eager to part with there money and the wine will now be so unaccessible that anyone who manages to score a drop will instantly put it up on a pedestal with the other big boys. 

Well done Torbreck

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Reply by drinkersdigest, Sep 10, 2010.

I am not sure I agree with you Charles Emilio... Grange took decades in the market place with sufficient demand to earn its premium price tag.

Torbrecks "The Laird" project took 4 years in oak to have the marketing team decide it was valued at $700. And admittedly was started before the credit crunch as an Australian homage to Guigals La La's.

The wine market is in terrible shape, it is nearly impossible to shift a bottle that has a price of more than $50. So where do they imagine the demand for this wine is coming from?

Yes there will be some whales who'll splash out for a bottle or maybe two this year.

What if its not that good? I imagine a project like this has successive vintages following... and if so what happens to the price when demand dry's up in the already limited space they're playing in.

Already back vintages of Run Rig and Les Amis aren't that hard to come by in bottleshops.

Very risky play I say, very risky indeed.

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 10, 2010.

Modeling after Guigal's La-Las makes sense commercially, perhaps. But as wine???? I haven't really liked any of the three for well more than a decade, though I suppose it doesn't take much armtwisting to get me to taste one if someone hands me a glass.....

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Reply by zufrieden, Sep 10, 2010.

Just a quick remark:  this forum has generated a good, rousing but civilized discussion on a major wine producting region.  The intimate details on some of the products have been especially interesting and useful.  Good on you, and don't be afraid of getting passionate!

 

Cheers!

 

 

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Reply by Charles Emilio, Sep 11, 2010.

Whoever mentioned the Clonakilla Shiraz-Viognier thanks for the reminder.

I can remember atleast 3 occasions at Syrah/Shiraz tastings Cote Rotie vs Australia; where this wine has been the favourite of the night only to see everybody adjust their notes and mark down their scores at the end of the night when they found out it was Australian. 

If anyone was going to throw a massive price tag on one of their wines I think these guys could get away with it, especially if it was released 4 or 5 years after vintage.

 

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 11, 2010.

Lots of points to consider

@CE - Clonakilla is an excellent wine and it does perform brilliantly against its peers anywhere in the world.  It is sad that people won't stand by their blind assessments, but that will always continue to happen.  I am always dissappointed when a favourite performs poorly in a blind tasting, whether its me tasting it or others.  It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Kirks did delay the release on Clonakilla, but it currently sells out very quickly

In relation to Torbreck, Dave Powell has to date been very sucessful in producing outstanding wine which has found a strong set of supporters both domestically and in the US.  I see no problem with developing the Laird and if kept to low case volumes until it finds a group of supporters then it could be a success.  The commercial reality is that financial downturns will always have a very significant impact on luxury wine.  The 1974 Oil crisis had a very profound impact on all Bordeaux Classified Growth Chateaux, so did 80-82 and late 80's/early 90's downturns, Lafites, Lambourghini's, Luxury Yachts and Villas hgead south in tough times, but they recover eventually.

I know there has been a bit of criticism of the Guigal La La's but I had a 1998 La Mouline recently and the winemakers at the event all agreed it was a superb wine. I also had a couple of bottles of 2004 Guigal D'Ampuis over the last two days and despite needing more time the wine was outstanding and to me showcased the difference between it and the 2004 Yalumba Octavius and 2004 Peter Lehmann Stonewall and 2005 Jim Barry Armagh we tasted with it.

Let me say all four wines were a distinct pleasure to drink and the contrast between Barossa Clare and Cote Rotie were exactly what I like about drinking wine.  Outstanding Winemakers producing outstanding wine, but all different.

As to Phillip White - I am sad you think he is a great wine journo, I sponsored a table at a recent wine press club launch and Philips presentation came across and a rambling disconnected barrage of vitriol basically criticising the entire Australian Grapegrowing and winemaking community.  I was personnally found his remarks illogical, bitter and offensive.  There were clearly not constructive criticism and to suggest that Australia should pull out its entire Sunraysia and Riverland vineyards is aburb, because his reasons basically suggested that all irrigation is bad and we should grow virtually no food irrigated by the Murray Darling system.

Funny, now the rain has come and the snow is falling most irrigators will get close to 100% allocations.  I won't go into a detailed assessment of the irrigation position all what this may mean to 2001 vintage, but Phillip writes a lot of stuff based on his opinion and not necessarily reference to facts.

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Reply by drinkersdigest, Sep 11, 2010.

Brilliant and favourite are not necessarily the same thing. Philip White does write with hyberbole and a tongue in his cheek, if only to raise the hackles of a certain few. Not a man of convention is he!

As for writers who have a palate with which I find myself aligning Huon Hooke is probably the closest locally and I find myself agreeing with Robinson more than Parker. So perhaps my opinions of the mighty Barossa Shiraz can be attributed to this sensibility.

I've got my allocation of Clonakilla for this year. The 2009 is certainly a highlight of recent vintages and well worth the investment IMHO.

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 13, 2010.

So Stephen, et al., what would be your top half-dozen picks from among this recent offer by Benchmark?

  • Amon Ra Shiraz Barossa Valley 2001 ~ 18 @ $68 WA91-94 
  • Amon Ra Shiraz Barossa Valley 2003 ~ 6 @ $124 WA96-100 original carton
  • Aus Vetia Shiraz 1999 ~ 12 @ $49 WS92 
  • Barossa Old Vine Company Shiraz 2001 ~ 6 @ $54 WA96 OWC
  • Barossa Valley Estates Shiraz E & E Black Pepper 1998 ~ 6 @ $89 WS95 
  • Barossa Valley Estates Shiraz E & E Black Pepper 2001 ~ 24 @ $74 WS93, IWC91 
  • Barton Vale Shiraz The Challenger 2001 ~ 12 @ $68 WA96 
  • Branson Shiraz Coach House 1999 ~ 18 @ $45 original carton
  • Brokenwood Shiraz Rayner Vineyard 1999 ~ 12 @ $49 WA92 
  • Burge Family Shiraz G3 2002 ~ 12 @ $58 WA96 
  • Burge Family Shiraz G3 2002 ~ 3 @ $58 WA96 original carton
  • Burge Family Shiraz Grenache Mourvedre Olive Hill 2005 ~ 12 @ $27 IWC91, WA90 original carton
  • Burge Family Shiraz Souzao 2005 ~ 12 @ $36 IWC91, WA90 original carton
  • Cape D`Estaing Cabernet Sauvignon Kangaroo Island 1999 ~ 24 @ $25 
  • Cape D`Estaing Shiraz 1999 ~ 12 @ $29 one wrinkled label
  • Cape D`Estaing Shiraz 1999 ~ 6 @ $29 one slightly damp stained label
  • Cape D`Estaing Shiraz Admirals Reserve 2001 ~ 2 @ $110 OWC
  • Cape D`Estaing Shiraz Kangaroo Island 2001 ~ 12 @ $42 WA94 
  • Charles Cimicky Shiraz Reserve 2002 ~ 12 @ $54 WA94-96 original carton
  • Charles Melton Shiraz 1998 ~ 12 @ $49 
  • Chateau Tahbilk Shiraz 1994 ~ 5 @ $21 OWC
  • Clarendon Hills Grenache Blewitt Springs Vineyard Old Vines 1998 ~ 12 @ $48 WA92 
  • Clarendon Hills Merlot Brookman`s 2004 ~ 12 @ $39 WA93 original carton
  • Clarendon Hills Shiraz Astralis 2002 ~ 1 @ $220 WA99 
  • Clarendon Hills Shiraz Brookman`s 1998 ~ 12 @ $79 WA94 
  • Clarendon Hills Shiraz Liandra`s 1997 ~ 12 @ $58 WA92 
  • Clarendon Hills Shiraz Moritz 2004 ~ 3 @ $46 WA95 original carton
  • Clarendon Hills Shiraz Piggott Range 1998 ~ 12 @ $78 WA92, IWC92 
  • d`Arenberg Cabernet Sauvignon Coppermine Road 1998 ~ 12 @ $48 WA95 
  • d`Arenberg Cabernet Sauvignon Coppermine Road 1999 ~ 16 @ $36 WA95 
  • d`Arenberg Cabernet Sauvignon Coppermine Road 2001 ~ 24 @ $49 WA93 
  • d`Arenberg Cabernet Sauvignon Coppermine Road 2001 ~ 6 @ $38 WA93 original carton
  • d`Arenberg Cabernet Sauvignon Coppermine Road 2002 ~ 12 @ $44 WA93 
  • d`Arenberg GSM Ironstone Pressings 1998 ~ 6 @ $33 WA92, WS90, IWC90 
  • d`Arenberg GSM Ironstone Pressings 1998 ~ 6 @ $33 WA92, WS90, IWC90 one cut label
  • d`Arenberg GSM Ironstone Pressings 1999 ~ 24 @ $38 WA93 
  • d`Arenberg GSM Ironstone Pressings 2001 ~ 24 @ $32 WS92, WA92 
  • d`Arenberg GSM Ironstone Pressings 2002 ~ 12 @ $39 WA93 
  • d`Arenberg Shiraz Dead Arm McLaren Vale 1998 ~ 6 @ $49 WA94+, WS93 
  • d`Arenberg Shiraz Dead Arm McLaren Vale 1999 ~ 18 @ $65 WA96 
  • d`Arenberg Shiraz Dead Arm McLaren Vale 2001 ~ 36 @ $85 WA98 original carton
  • d`Arenberg Shiraz Dead Arm McLaren Vale 2003 ~ 24 @ $59 WA95 
  • David Traeger Shiraz 1997 ~ 6 @ $19 
  • Dog Ridge Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $26 
  • Elderton Shiraz Command 1999 ~ 24 @ $64 WA94, WS94 OWC
  • Elderton Shiraz Command 2000 ~ 6 @ $74 WS97 OWC
  • Greenock Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 2001 ~ 11 @ $58 WA93 
  • Greenock Creek Shiraz Alice`s Block 2001 ~ 2 @ $84 WA98 original carton
  • Greenock Creek Shiraz Alice`s Block 2002 ~ 6 @ $55 WA96 
  • Greenock Creek Shiraz Apricot Block 2003 ~ 5 @ $63 WA95 original carton
  • Groom Shiraz Barossa Valley 2001 ~ 12 @ $35 WS91 original carton
  • Haan Merlot Prestige 2000 ~ 9 @ $39 
  • Hardy`s Shiraz Eileen Hardy 1996 1.5L ~ 1 @ $69 WS91, WA90 
  • Hardy`s Shiraz Eileen Hardy 1998 ~ 24 @ $69 WA90, WS90 OWC
  • Hare`s Chase Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $29 WA93 
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Adelaide Plains 2002 ~ 2 @ $25 WA91 
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Adelaide Plains 2003 ~ 12 @ $27 original carton
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Baroota 2001 ~ 12 @ $29 
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Barossa Valley 2001 ~ 12 @ $39 original carton
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Barossa Valley 2002 ~ 12 @ $39 WS95, WA94 
  • Hazyblur Shiraz Barossa Valley 2003 ~ 12 @ $52 WA94, WS93 
  • Henry`s Drive Shiraz Reserve 2001 ~ 4 @ $46 WA96 
  • Henry`s Drive Shiraz Reserve 2001 ~ 6 @ $46 WA96 
  • Henry`s Drive Shiraz Reserve 2002 ~ 36 @ $89 WA97 
  • Henry`s Drive Shiraz Reserve 2003 ~ 8 @ $44 WA95 original carton
  • Henschke Cabernet Sauvignon Cyril Henschke 1999 ~ 18 @ $69 WA94 
  • Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 1996 ~ 2 @ $90 WS94 
  • Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 2001 ~ 6 @ $69 WA95 
  • Hobbs Shiraz 2000 ~ 3 @ $74 OWC
  • Hobbs Shiraz 2001 ~ 2 @ $74 WA96 OWC
  • Hobbs Shiraz 2002 ~ 6 @ $85 WA92 original carton
  • Hobbs Shiraz Gregor 2002 ~ 4 @ $98 WA93 original carton
  • Hundred Acre Shiraz Ancient Way 2004 ~ 6 @ $189 IWC91 OWC
  • Jim Barry Shiraz Armagh 1999 ~ 12 @ $99 WS93, WA92, IWC92 
  • Jim Barry Shiraz Armagh 2001 ~ 12 @ $95 WA96, WS95 OWC
  • John Duval Wines GSM Plexus 2007 ~ 6 @ $24 WA92, IWC92, WS91 
  • John Duval Wines Shiraz Entity 2006 ~ 3 @ $29 WA94, IWC93, WS92 
  • John Duval Wines Shiraz Entity 2007 ~ 3 @ $24 WA93, IWC93, WS92 
  • Kaesler Shiraz Old Bastard 2002 ~ 6 @ $125 WA96, WS94 
  • Kaesler Shiraz Stonehorse 2002 ~ 12 @ $34 WA94-96 
  • Kaesler Shiraz Stonehorse 2003 ~ 20 @ $24 WA92-94 
  • Kaesler Shiraz The Bogan 2003 ~ 24 @ $49 WA95 original carton
  • Kangarilla Road Shiraz Viognier 2005 ~ 18 @ $21 WA91 original carton
  • Kay Brothers Shiraz Amery Hillside 2001 ~ 1 @ $34 WA93-95 original carton
  • Kay Brothers Shiraz Amery Hillside 2003 ~ 6 @ $29 WA92, IWC90 original carton
  • Kay Brothers Shiraz Block 6 Amery Vineyard 2002 ~ 6 @ $79 WA95 
  • Kay Brothers Shiraz Block 6 Amery Vineyard 2003 ~ 6 @ $99 WA95 
  • Kilikanoon Shiraz Oracle 1999 ~ 12 @ $69 WA94 
  • Killibinbin Shiraz 2001 ~ 24 @ $29 WA92 
  • Killibinbin Shiraz 2002 ~ 12 @ $35 WA91, WS90 
  • Killibinbin Shiraz 2002 ~ 12 @ $35 WA91, WS90 
  • Killibinbin Shiraz 2002 ~ 12 @ $35 WA91, WS90 three nicked labels
  • Kirralaa Shiraz Indelible Reserve 2001 ~ 18 @ $35 OWC
  • Langmeil Shiraz Valley Floor 2001 ~ 12 @ $29 
  • Langmeil Three Gardens 2001 ~ 12 @ $19 
  • Lashmar Cabernet Sauvignon Kangaroo Island 1999 ~ 12 @ $29 
  • Lashmar Shiraz Three Valley 1999 ~ 12 @ $49 IWC90 
  • Leeuwin Estate Cabernet Sauvignon Art Series 1999 ~ 10 @ $32 WA94 original carton
  • Lengs + Cooter Shiraz Reserve 2000 ~ 12 @ $29 WA91, WS91 original carton
  • Lengs + Cooter Shiraz Reserve 2001 ~ 6 @ $39 WA94 original carton
  • Lengs + Cooter Shiraz Reserve 2002 ~ 12 @ $36 WA92, WS91, IWC90 original carton
  • Longwood Estate Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $19 WA91 
  • Lost Highway Shiraz Stella`s Garden 2003 ~ 6 @ $49 original carton
  • Majella Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $22 IWC91 original carton
  • Marquis Philips S2 2002 ~ 12 @ $29 WA92 original carton
  • Marquis Philips Shiraz Integrity 2002 ~ 18 @ $194 WA99 
  • Marquis Philips Shiraz Integrity 2003 ~ 12 @ $104 WA94 
  • Marquis Philips Shiraz Nine 2002 ~ 22 @ $59 WA96 original carton
  • Mitolo Cabernet Sauvignon Serpico 2003 ~ 6 @ $39 WA92, IWC91 
  • Mitolo Shiraz GAM 2002 ~ 18 @ $49 WA95-97 slight damp stained label
  • Mitolo Shiraz GAM 2002 ~ 6 @ $49 WA95-97 
  • Mitolo Shiraz GAM 2003 ~ 24 @ $49 WA96-100 
  • Mitolo Shiraz Jester 2004 ~ 24 @ $21 WA90, IWC90 six loose label edges
  • Mitolo Shiraz Savitar 2001 ~ 6 @ $49 WA91-93, WS92 original carton
  • Mr. Riggs Shiraz 2001 ~ 24 @ $58 WS90 
  • Mr. Riggs Shiraz 2002 ~ 6 @ $58 WA94-96 slight damp stained labels, 1-slight label tear
  • Mr. Riggs Shiraz 2003 ~ 12 @ $35 WA92 original carton
  • Mr. Riggs Shiraz 2004 ~ 5 @ $49 WA95 tissue stained labels
  • Noon Winery Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve 2003 ~ 6 @ $145 WA98 
  • Noon Winery Eclipse 2001 ~ 12 @ $48 WA94 
  • Noon Winery Eclipse 2002 ~ 24 @ $78 WA97 
  • Noon Winery Eclipse 2003 ~ 12 @ $49 WA94 
  • Nurihannam Wines Shiraz Barossa Class 2002 ~ 12 @ $32 
  • Oliver`s Taranga Shiraz 1998 ~ 6 @ $49 WA95 
  • Oliver`s Taranga Shiraz 1999 ~ 6 @ $49 WA92, IWC92 
  • Oliver`s Taranga Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $39 WA92, WS90 
  • Parson`s Flat Shiraz Cabernet Padthaway 2002 ~ 24 @ $24 WA91 original carton
  • Penfolds Cabernet Sauvignon Bin 707 1998 ~ 3 @ $129 WS93
  • Penfolds Grange Bin 95 2003 ~ 1 @ $249 WS94, IWC93, WA92 
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 1998 ~ 6 @ $44 WS91, IWC91 
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 1999 ~ 12 @ $44 IWC92, WA90 slight bin soiled labels
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 2000 ~ 8 @ $39 WA90, WS90 original carton
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 2001 ~ 12 @ $58 WS91 
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 1998 ~ 6 @ $89 WS92, IWC90 
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 1999 ~ 30 @ $69 IWC95, WS94 
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 2000 ~ 12 @ $88 WS95 original carton
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 2001 ~ 6 @ $79 WS94 
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 2002 ~ 6 @ $69 WA93, WS93, IWC93 original carton
  • Peter Lehmann Cabernet Sauvignon Mentor 1998 ~ 18 @ $39 original carton
  • Poonawatta Estate Shiraz 2002 ~ 6 @ $99 WA92-95 
  • Possums Shiraz McLaren Vale 2002 ~ 24 @ $29 WA92-94 
  • Rosemount Estate Cabernet Shiraz Mountain Blue 2001 ~ 12 @ $34 IWC90 original carton
  • Rosemount Estate Syrah Balmoral 2001 ~ 8 @ $29 WS90, IWC90 original carton
  • Rusden Cabernet Sauvignon Boundaries 2001 ~ 14 @ $65 WA95 
  • Rusden Cabernet Sauvignon Boundaries 2002 ~ 12 @ $59 WA95 original carton
  • Rusden Cabernet Sauvignon Shiraz Ripper Creek 2002 ~ 18 @ $54 WA94 
  • Rusden Cabernet Sauvignon Shiraz Ripper Creek 2003 ~ 6 @ $39 original carton
  • Rusden Grenache Christine`s Vineyard 2002 ~ 24 @ $29 WA93 original carton
  • Rusden Shiraz Black Guts 2001 ~ 18 @ $75 WA97 original carton
  • Rusden Shiraz Black Guts 2002 ~ 12 @ $68 WA96 original carton
  • Shiralee Shiraz Old Basket 2001 ~ 12 @ $39 WA91 
  • Shirvington Cabernet Sauvignon 2002 ~ 12 @ $124 WA96 original carton
  • Shirvington Cabernet Sauvignon 2003 ~ 12 @ $65 WA94 original carton
  • Shirvington Shiraz 2003 ~ 9 @ $54 WA96 original carton
  • Shirvington Shiraz 2004 ~ 6 @ $49 WA95 
  • Standish Shiraz 2001 ~ 18 @ $59 WA95 
  • Tatiarra Shiraz Cambrian 2003 ~ 12 @ $39 WA91-93 original carton
  • Thalgara Shiraz Show Reserve 1998 ~ 12 @ $29 
  • The Colonial Estate Cabernet Sauvignon Etranger 2004 ~ 24 @ $29 WA90 original carton
  • Topaz Shiraz 2001 ~ 24 @ $29 OWC
  • Torbreck Shiraz The Factor 2000 ~ 10 @ $79 WA95 one flange foil missing
  • Torbreck Shiraz The Run Rig 2001 ~ 6 @ $149 WA99, WS98 OWC
  • Torbreck Shiraz Woodcutter`s Red 1999 ~ 12 @ $24 WA90 
  • Trevor Jones Shiraz Wild Witch 2001 ~ 24 @ $44 IWC92, WS90 
  • Troll Creek Shiraz Hage Family Vineyards 2002 ~ 12 @ $44 WA93 original carton
  • Two Hands Shiraz Harry & Edward`s Garden 2005 ~ 10 @ $37 IWC92, WA91, WS91 
  • Wild Duck Creek Shiraz Springflat 2001 ~ 24 @ $29 WA91, WS91 original carton


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Reply by outthere, Sep 13, 2010.

That should keep them busy for a while.

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Reply by drinkersdigest, Sep 13, 2010.
My reasons for choosing the wines below are, I've experienced them, I feel they offer value for money Peter Lehmann for $39 is a better than fair price. 2001 has gone through as a sleeper vintage, lacking the high cropping yields of '98 and '02 and so didn't get the marketers talking it up. '01 Mt Edelstone is a steal as is the Kilikanoon Oracle. Magill is almost as rare as rocking horse shit here, club members and cellar door only for the last two years. Get it whilst its about.
  • Amon Ra Shiraz Barossa Valley 2001 ~ 18 @ $68 WA91-94 
  • Barossa Old Vine Company Shiraz 2001 ~ 6 @ $54 WA96 OWC
  • Barossa Valley Estates Shiraz E & E Black Pepper 1998 ~ 6 @ $89 WS95 
  • Chateau Tahbilk Shiraz 1994 ~ 5 @ $21 OWC
  • Henry`s Drive Shiraz Reserve 2002 ~ 36 @ $89 WA97 
  • Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 1996 ~ 2 @ $90 WS94 
  • Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 2001 ~ 6 @ $69 WA95 
  • Jim Barry Shiraz Armagh 2001 ~ 12 @ $95 WA96, WS95 OWC
  • John Duval Wines Shiraz Entity 2006 ~ 3 @ $29 WA94, IWC93, WS92 
  • Kilikanoon Shiraz Oracle 1999 ~ 12 @ $69 WA94 
  • Majella Shiraz 2001 ~ 12 @ $22 IWC91 original carton
  • Oliver`s Taranga Shiraz 1998 ~ 6 @ $49 WA95 
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 1998 ~ 6 @ $44 WS91, IWC91 
  • Peter Lehmann Cabernet Sauvignon Mentor 1998 ~ 18 @ $39 original carton
  • Standish Shiraz 2001 ~ 18 @ $59 WA95 
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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 14, 2010.

D - my first comment is that the listed prices are well below what we would pay, complete opposite to US wines in Australia, your good fortune our misfortune

 

I have included Jeremy Olivers ratings as I think he stylistically rates closest to my perception [big jump of faith and perhaps brave assumption, but what I read in your analysis of wines so far!] of your tastes. JO tends to be anti-Parker and big alcohol and looks for elegance over power.  I don't always agree with him but I know he is a very diligent and serious critic and tries to be as honest as possible.  He does [like all of us] have his favourites, but I have seen him rate a non-favourite high if he believes it warrants the rating.

 

In relation to SA -

 

I still hold my view that overall 2001 is a dissappointing vintage with what many would argue was the beginning of the "Parkerisation" of some wines.  It was a quite hot vintage and many winemakers went for late picked higher baume grapes.  I think 2001  is generally at its peak now and reminds me of 1997 abount 4-5 years ago where a generally lacklustre vintage did hit its straps for a short time.

 

1999 is probably the real sleeper vintage with many people believing that it will produce much longer lasting and more complex older wines than the stellar 1998 vintage.

 

2002 is very atypical for us being a relatively cool vintage producing some outstanding and more elegant wine styles

 

1996 and 1998 were great vintages

 

The following is a link to a good summary of our vintages

 

http://www.langtons.com.au/Tools/VintageReport.aspx

 

Hence IMHO the ones I would pick from your list in alphabetical order are:

  • Barossa Valley Estates Shiraz E & E Black Pepper 1998 ~ 6 @ $89 WS95  JO 96 [2010-18] Me 94
  • d`Arenberg Shiraz Dead Arm McLaren Vale 1998 ~ 6 @ $49 WA94+, WS93  JO 93 [2010-18] Me 95
  • Hardy`s Shiraz Eileen Hardy 1996 1.5L ~ 1 @ $69 WS91, WA90  JO 96 [2016-26] Me 96
  • Hardy`s Shiraz Eileen Hardy 1998 ~ 24 @ $69 WA90, WS90 OWC JO 97 [2010-18] Me 95
  • Henschke Shiraz Mount Edelstone 1996 ~ 2 @ $90 WS94  JO 95 [2007-15] Me 95
  • Jim Barry Shiraz Armagh 1999 ~ 12 @ $99 WS93, WA92, IWC92 JO 95 [2011-18] Me 96
  • Mitolo Shiraz GAM 2002 ~ 6 @ $49 WA95-97 JO 89 [2004-07+] Me 88 I would be interested in your view on this wine as it is a client which many rate outstanding but I don't get it??  
  • Nurihannam Wines Shiraz Barossa Class 2002 ~ 12 @ $32  This is an intersting wine as it is made by students at Nuriootpa High as a forerunner to them entering Uni
  • Penfolds Cabernet Sauvignon Bin 707 1998 ~ 3 @ $129 WS93 JO 97 [2011-18+] Me 96
  • Penfolds Shiraz Magill Estate 1999 ~ 12 @ $44 IWC92, WA90 slight bin soiled labels JO 95 [2011-19] Me 95
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 1998 ~ 6 @ $89 WS92, IWC90  JO 97 [2010-18+] Me 97+ One of my favourites - my Led Zeppelin wine!
  • Penfolds Shiraz RWT Red Winemaking Trial 1999 ~ 30 @ $69 IWC95, WS94  JO 96 [2011-19] Me 95 
  •  Peter Lehmann Cabernet Sauvignon Mentor 1998 ~ 18 @ $39 original carton JO 93 [2010-18] Me 95 [have had lot of Cork issues]

Certainly interested in yours and others views if they can get a hold of any of these.

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 14, 2010.

Thanks to both of you, dd and Stephen, for your help in culling the list. Not sure what I'll be getting just yet, since I have to factor in shipping and other issues. My guess that US prices might be cheaper than from a merchant in Oz has been confirmed, though. I still would be interested in any reccs on merchants you know to have good selection and also to ship overseas....

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 15, 2010.

Going back to our discussion of Nepenthe on p. 4 of this thread, it was a hoot to just see that Bon Apetit magazine (which does seem to have come up with any number of numbered lists whenever I view it) named Big Sur the 3rd 'foodiest' town (not city) in the US, with Nepenthe mentioned as one of the reasons for that. I assume they're talking about Post Ranch Inn and Ventana for the hotels...

===

Big Sur, California

In the midst of a 90-mile stretch of protected wilderness along California's Central Coast, this town is home to jaw-dropping scenery, award-winning hotels, and three of the quirkiest restaurants in the West: Big Sur Bakery & Restaurant, Deetjen's Big Sur Inn and Restaurant, and Nepenthe. And be sure to order seconds when you visit Big Sur--surfing, hiking, and cycling are nearby to help burn calories.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 15, 2010.

Thanks D, but my memory of Nepenthe was that it was very good and I wished I could have had a real lunch and numerous beers and wines there.  But Quirky, I didn't get quirky, oh well such is life, I wonder if anyone else has a view.

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 15, 2010.

Bon Appetit is a pretty conservative mainstream mag. Their writer's attempt to deal with the historical counter-culture, artistic, funky, what-have-you ambience of Big Sur led to that choice of term. I wouldn't be too fussed about it.... ;-)

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 16, 2010.

Thanks the description surprised me but you have put it in context

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 16, 2010.

Hey, they put up Boulder, Colorado as their first place foodie-town. It used to be known as the Republic of Boulder, Granola-town, etc. for its counter-culture tendencies, not so far in the past. McMinnville in Oregon's Willamette got #2, which alternative always has had a more wholesome but commercial-business-PR-backed feel for me. In one sense it's kinda sad to see the old bastions of Boulder and Big Sur bite the mainstream commercial dust. Though of course there are still individuals in those areas holding strong....

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