Wine Talk

Snooth User: napagirl68

Sell this CA gal on a Riesling!

Posted by napagirl68, Dec 1, 2010.

I am open to suggestions that are relatively easy to procure, on the dryer side, and have some level of complexity- I tend not to like a one-dimensional, flat wine.  At my last tasting of Asian influenced foods, I paired a Trefethern Dry Reisling, along with 2 other whites.  People liked it ok, but thought a bit sweet tho.  The white rhone blend from CA won hands down.  But, I am not letting that put me off of Rieslings!

Suggestions, snoothers?  Would love to hear from all...and hopefully GDD :-)

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Reply by gregt, Dec 2, 2010.

It's a late-ripening grape.  Some people think that's why at its best, it has a great deal of dry extract.  I don't really buy that theory but whatever.

The problem is knowing what you're getting.  "Dry" or "trocken" means it's got no more than 9 g/l of residual sugar, or 0.9%.  Supposedly the average person starts to detect sugar at around 12 or 13 g/l but that's discernable sweetness.  In fact, you can tell the difference between a wine with 2 or 3 g/l RS and 9.  So although the latter isn't "sweet" by the legal wine definition, it's sweeter than a lot of whites.  For example, Buena Vista claims that their Chardonnay has something like 1.2 g/L of RS. 

So if you get a SB or Chardonnay that's got somewhere south of 4 g/L RS and you have a "dry" riesling with twice that, you naturally find the latter to be sweeter.  And then most of them are half-dry anyhow.  Chateau St Michelle for example, makes some pretty good Riesling in Washington, but the Eroica is somewhere around 12 - 15% if I'm not mistaken.

In Alsace, they're usually a bit higher in RS than they are in Germany, and as a rule, I don't like the Alatian wines nearly as much anyway - they tend to be pricier and not as good. 

The Germans make life hard because they have designations like Kabinett, that have nothing to do with sweetness.  They only refer to the sugar at harvest.  More recently they've come up with things like Grosses Gewächs or Erstes Gewächs or Erste Lage, which are supposed to be picked at Spatlese levels of sugar and then fermented completely dry.  I think that's a real unfortunate development - these are overpriced, underwhelming wines that seem to be created for a small segment of wine drinkers, many in the US, who fancy themselves sophisticated but who are unable to discern what they believe is "terroir" if they're distracted by RS.  More wine BS IMHO, although one can claim that a slight bit of sugar can mask a harshness in the wine, so the drier ones must be handled and picked more carefully.  Perhaps.

Anyhow, your safest bet for a really dry Riesling, since you said elsewhere that you don't really love sweeter ones, would be Australia.  Typically they ferment them bone dry, although a few people are starting to make slightly sweeter ones.  But although Washington for example, and even New York and Michigan, make good Riesling - it's a cold weather grape after all - in Australia they've informally agreed that they'll make them dry by default.  Leeuwin for example, or Grosset, who is one of the more acclaimed producers.

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Reply by Girl Drink Drunk, Dec 2, 2010.

Helfrich (Alsace) products are usually fairly easy to find and fairly priced.  I've been enjoying their Grand Cru Steinklotz Riesling.  It's dry and definitely complex.  You can probably buy it retail for around $25.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Dec 2, 2010.

Whilst I am a big fan of Geman and Alsation Rieslings, they tend to be very pricey here at home, but our rieslings are very good, particularly from Clare and Eden Valley[next door to the Barossa]

My Favourites are [with AUD retail price]

Grosset Polish Hill [$45]

Grosset Springvale [$38]

Pewsey Vale [$15]

Pewsey Vale Contours [$30]

Jacobs Creek Steingarten [$25]

Seppelt Drumborg [$30]

Peter Lehmann The Wigan [$30]

Clos Clare [$22]

Penna Lane [$20]

If you get to the Yalumba tastings the Pewsey Vales are part of their portfolio.

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Reply by dmcker, Dec 2, 2010.

In Alsace, they're usually a bit higher in RS than they are in Germany, and as a rule, I don't like the Alatian wines nearly as much anyway - they tend to be pricier and not as good. 

Not sure where you get that, Greg. We must be drinking from a different map. Alsatians rieslings, as a rule, are far drier than a standard cross-the-board sampling of German rieslings, in my experience, though there are plenty of dry rieslings from Germany because there's a lot more of that grape bottled from several regions there.

Zind-Humbrecht is perhaps the biggest name that tried to change the usual bone-dry Alsatian riesling into a sweeter, more German-like animal. And they gained a certain following by doing so. Kindof one of those regional iconoclasts who tried to create marketing waves by being different, like certain winemakers in Chablis using lots of oak, or... But I don't think they have succeeded in making the best wine from the region. Just in carving out a certain niche in the market, though their marketing & PR efforts have been relatively successful, particularly towards markets, like in North America, where people are accustomed to drinking sweeter, more poorly balance, lopsided rieslings from local winemakers, and so are receptive to something that's still sweet, but better balanced. Newbies from such places are often surprised by the dryness of a more oldskool Alsatian riesling and don't know where to place it on the winedrinking map and tend to move on to other wines that speak a more recognizable language to them.

Trimbach and Hugel still make more oldschool versions, as do plenty of other makers from Alsace. I love their wines with a number of dishes, and had a lot of compliments even from newbies this last Thanksgiving when I busted out a few bottles.

But dryness isn't the ultimate characteristic in a riesling for me, either. Lots of German Kabinetts and Spatleses that have a subtle sweetness but great acidity and balance and go oh-so-well with so many foods. Of course Ausleses (or vendange tardives in Alsace), and beerenausleses and trocken beeren ausleses (and eisweins) are sweeter yet, and are some of the best dessert wines on earth. I'll take a good German eiswein over the best Canada has to offer any day.

My suggestion, NG, is to start with the wine where it's been made the longest, where terroir, etc. is known and matched well. In other words in Germany, Alsace and Austria. The best rieslings in the world are still made there, IMHO, not in upstate New York, Washington, esp. California, and even Australia. After you experience some of the things the grape can do there, then come back to your beloved California. My guess is you'll be even less happy with what's coming from there, but you might luck across a good winemaker, or two. It just seems absolutely crazy to me that you're not going to the source when you're talking about this kind of wine.

And generally, Stephen, rieslings are still economical, pretty much under the general drinking populace's radar, in most markets. You just happen to be living in one of the more blatantly protective-by-design winemarkets in the developed world.... ;-)

 

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Reply by gregt, Dec 2, 2010.

D - you're right of course.

Well, at least PARTLY. After I re-read my post I once again cursed the lack of an edit function.  So now my ignorance is on display always and forever. 

I didn't intend to say that they are usually higher in RS from the Alsace.  Or I probably did for some reason but wouldn't have left that if I could have changed it because the rest of the post doesn't follow logically from that premise.

I did mean to say that I didn't tend to like Alsatian Rieslings as much as those from Germany tho.  Trimbach, Zind-Humbrecht, Hugel, Deiss - that's about it in the US.  There's Kreydenweiss, Boxler, Weinbach and Mann if you look really hard, and a few others.  And maybe one more if I can get some people interested in bringing it in.  But generally, at least in my limited experience, if I want a Riesling, the Germans are my go-to wines.  And over the Alsatians, the US and Australia.

Maybe part of it is that there's precious little Pinot Blanc grown in Germany, whereas they do that in Alsace.  And other grapes.  It's ground zero for Gwertz, for example.  So why go with a grape that they're second best in, when you can get their stars? 

Austria has a problem too.  Their wines tend to be like everything else from Austria - more expensive than they should be.  Also, and this is probably a personal thing, I'm far more interested in the grapes they share as part of the Austro-Hungarian alliance than I am in something that's done better elsewhere.  So in Burgenland for example, they do pretty good Olazrizling, Furmint, etc, and in places like Gumpoldskirchen you can find even more localized grapes like Zierfandler and Rotgipfler.  If you're comparing a producer's Riesling against his Gruner Veltliner, for example, of course the Riesling is better.  But if you taste his Riesling against a decent one from Pfalz, then you wonder why you aren't drinking something Austria does uniquely. 

But good advice - go to the source.  Especially when you find out that the QPR of those wines can still be mind-boggling.  Much as I like CA, Riesling wouldn't be my first choice for a grape there.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Dec 2, 2010.

D

The only wine we do not get in any quantity or quality here is US wine, I have been able to access lots of French [including Alsace] and German wine, and also many at the affordable sub $60 range.

For some reason there is just no demand for Cali wine over here which is why it is not imported.

On the tax side the 29% WET and 10% GST apply to both domestic and imported wine, so the only difference should be in freight and exchange rate. 

The current exchange rate should make imported wine accessible, and in fact we are seeing that in pre Christmas Champagne prices which are 10-20% below last year.

The other factor on pricing is off course due to oversupply the big retailers can screw the local wine companies on price which allows for cheaper wine for us consumers.

The premium imports do not seem to suffer from the indignity on the shelves

My favourite German/Alsace makers are:

Jos Jos Prun

Trimbach

Hugel

Weinbach

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Reply by John Andrews, Dec 3, 2010.

I gotta give some respect to a northern California producer ... check out the Navarro Riesling and Gewertz.  Not only are they really good, they can be had for great value. 

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Reply by napagirl68, Dec 3, 2010.

This CA girl has yet to find a CA riesling that I like.  But will try your suggestion, HJ... just so I don't write off the whole state.

GDD- thank you for the recommendation, I will procure this.

gregT- thanks for your input... and I would hardly call your post "ignorant", even for a small mistake.  Your pointers are very well taken and appreciated.

Dmcker, I have heard of Trimbach and plan to find some.  would love to taste this and compare to what I have tasted here in CA.  and yes, I have a CA "palate", however, I love so many other wines out of the area too... particularly varietals that I do not think CA does well (like the riesling?) such as Torrontes and Malbec.

SH- you have such access to wines you love there in Oz... I can tell in your writings.  I am one who has deplored almost every aussie wine I've tasted.  I am sure that is due to poor distribution to CA (as is poor CA distribution to other areas, as I've mentioned in other posts).  I am REALLY hoping I like this Yalumba I will be tasting tomorrow... Then I can say I like an aussie wine!!  I am convinced there are good ones.. just not the ones in my shops.

 

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Dec 3, 2010.

NG: SH is probably the best source for Aussie wine knowledge, but the really knowledgable guy in northern California for Aussie wines, if you want to go that way, is Chuck Hayward at JJ Buckley, formerly at the Jug Shop in SF. Red headed guy.  All around great wine merchant, but was on the forefront of Aussie wine in the US/Bay Area.  Probably could figure out what you like in Riesling.  Also would know where it can be had, since SH definitely gets wines we don't and vice versa.  I second the Navarro recommendation for a variety of non-mainstream varietals.  Also, they make verjus that's great for marinating and making mango salsa as well as other things. Right now, their website indicates no Riesling, but they do have the Gewurtz.

GregT gets a free pass from me for many other great postings, and because I am pretty sure he nailed me for misspelling ribera in Ribera del Duero--although my fingers might want to add an "i," I absolutely know the difference between it and Ribeira Sacra, just as he knows the difference between rieslings from Alsace and elsewhere.  (Sacra is fine, but RdD makes some of the best wine I have ever had.)

California used to make a fair bit of riesling, but one problem is that quite a bit was torn up as white wine was dominated by chardonnay and, in warmer weather areas, by sauv blanc.  Also, there's some labeling issues, because not all the grapes going by riesling are the same.  When I was a kid, we used to have Mondavi's Johannisberg Riesling, which was quite dry, as I recall.  Wine.com carries it, so they still make it. I can't say if I liked it, because it's been so long. Wente made something called Grey Riesling; like many Wente wines, it wasn't what it was claimed to be--it wasn't riesling at all.  (Wente is a bit of a whipping boy for me.) The Johannisberg IS German riesling, but some other rieslings in California turned out not to be. 

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Reply by gregt, Dec 4, 2010.

Hey Fox- don't remember that "i", hope it wasn't too obnoxious. But what you say about the Riesling in CA is interesting on 2 counts.  First, the reality of what's in the bottle.  First time I was in Nevada and someone ordered a Coke and the waitress asked what flavor, I was a bit non-plussed.  Then I learned that they used the word as a synonym for soda. 

A few years ago I asked a noted winemaker from Australia why their Riesling tended to be dry by default, contrary to what I would have expected.  He said that back in the day, they were all over the sweetness spectrum and they used the word almost as a synonym for white wine.  So the producers got together and agreed to come up with a single style that would help create an identity, particularly in the export markets.   It worked to the extent that there's any mind share for Australian Riesling, which is a different problem.  These days they're trying to develop regional identities for various grapes, but that's kind of artificial and I think it's a little lame - to the extent those things are accurate, they should emerge organically, not as the result of a marketing plan.

The other point - regarding the vines being ripped up, is something that has happened in CA several times in its short modern wine-producing life.  I'd imagine that for the most part, it's not an ideal place to grow Riesling anyhow.  But ripping out existing vines to make way for trendier ones is a shame if the existing ones are producing well.  Right now for example, there are a lot of old zin vines that are being pulled out to make way for Pinot Noir, which has become trendy.  At one time there was a lot of Barbera and Carignan - most not so great, but some should have been remarkable at this point, now all gone.

In honor of this thread though, I think I will open a Riesling tonight!  Cheers all.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, Dec 4, 2010.

GregT: Australia (and I expect SH to chime in on this) has taken an approach to wine that has focused on more centralized planning, for lack of a better word.  I think it worked for a while, but the approach has run up against its limits.  But what do you do when you don't have the immediate recognizability of your regions, ala France (Bord, Burg, Rhone), Italy (Tuscany, Piedmont) and Napa?  And there you are halfway around the world, cut off from Europe and the US.  Much as we like the organic approach, it would take Aus forever to establish itself without a little more planning, imo. Aus did something right to get from a joke on Monty Python to even being discussed by folks who are serious about wine.

Zin, now that's something I can go on about.  I think that Zin is finding the places where it is best grown, but certainly suffered from the blush zin backlash.  Frankly, Napa should let DCV, Amador, and Sierra Foothills grow the Zin, for the most part.  They do it better or cheaper or both.  But the pinot issue is more around the edges of Russian River Valley AVA, and there are points to be made.  I have had a few RRV Zins, and I prefer DCV, but there is something to be said for the style of zin that comes out of RRV.  And a lot of RRV pinots are only so-so.  Maybe the answer is Syrah (now there's a vine that is being ripped up unneccessarily) or chardonnay if they will make the right style.  Or viognier, marsanne or rousanne, which Preston does a good job with just over the line in DCV. 

A lot of the barbera and carignan (esp the latter) was grown by jug makers in the central valley.  Can't see how that ever leads to great wines. But, for a very competent Barbera (and really inexpensive--maybe $11 retail, but often on sale for under $10), Montevina from the Sierra foothills is still in the game.  (Under a screw cap, too--perfect pizza wine if you can't get a Salice Salentino where you are.) Fair number of growers of Rhones are preserving and increasing the carignane and it can still be found in DCV. 

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Reply by napagirl68, Dec 4, 2010.

"Frankly, Napa should let DCV, Amador, and Sierra Foothills grow the Zin, for the most part.  They do it better or cheaper or both."

foxall: Although zin is not my first choice (or third) in varietals, I agree with your statement completely.  gregT put it well when he said that they have pulled out many old vines here in ca to replace them with what sells big... pinot for now.  My pet peeve centers around points you both made... why can't they just plant vines where they do the best???  Cool, coastal, foggy areas for pinot, hot, rocky-soil, sunny areas for Zin..  The thought of growing pinot vines in a warmer region just makes me shudder. 

Varietals should be planted WHERE CONDITIONS FAVOR THAT GRAPE!!!  but I guess the almighty dollar is the bottom line..

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Reply by gregt, Dec 4, 2010.

Exactly right - they should plant where the grapes do well.  It's also true about a lot of those Barberas, Carignans, etc., being planted for jug wines, but OTOH, that may not be all that evil. A lot of zin went into those wines too and into White Zin even though the vineyards have shown themselves able to produce great wine these days.  And around the world, a lot of areas grew grapes that went into indifferent wine.  Priorat is a famous example, and in Australia, a lot of the Grenache, and there are many co-ops in Spain, or even Italy - Roagna comes to mind, where growers pulled out of the co-op and started focusing on making more careful wine from their existing vineyards.

There's a story about Gallo buying some grapes from BV that they threw into their Hearty Burgundy, same grapes went into Georges de Latour. A lot of grapes shouldn't be planted where they are, and Central Valley was probably never going to be a great place. Problem is that CA became so French-focused that it's now almost revolutionary today if you do something other than French grapes.  And that's one of the main problems with our focus on the grape variety in the bottle.  If people wouldn't be so obsessed with whether it's a Merlot, or Cab, or Chardonnay, I think it would be possible to make MUCH better wine in more places. 

As far as Riesling, I'm wondering exactly where in CA would be a good spot. 

Mike Officer of Carlisle is working to save some of those old zin vineyards. Other people around the world are  too.  Here's a link:

http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/a201006011.html

 

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Reply by zufrieden, Dec 4, 2010.

If Riesling can grow in a wintry, wet and truly fungal place like the valley of the Rhine and its notable tributaries, it can be grown in the ocean-moderated (foggy) regions of Mendocino and points north to Oregon and beyond. Excellent Riesling is already produced in Washington, Idaho, British Columbia, Ontario and New York. Unfortunately, the volume is low and the quality variable, so there are difficulties referring to particular producers.

But this is real promise for the grape in North America.  If sufficient will existed, Riesling would reign supreme in Canada, for example, where it is a most obvious candidate for permanent immigration.  There is no ceiling to the quality that could be produced there - only quantity.  

Perhaps we need to stop depending on financial advisors for direction and follow the operational objective of producing good product.  There is no necessary connection between quality and profit. Therefore, it is my conviction that producers seriously intent on quality must actually treat wine more as art (instead of only professing to do so - when the accountant is away on vacation). Once you move to mass marketing you get the usual homogenization of taste. If you like Coke you'll like it fine produced in Atlanta or Moscow.  Wine can be produced in almost the same way - if we wish it so. This is the kind of quality model known as the LCD of consistency and brand recognition.  Is it the best paradigm for the production of fine wine?  I think not.

Now, Riesling is a very fine wine grape, but like any raw material it can be made to produce a flat, lusterless liquid.  Unfortunately, many people drink this stuff and feed the bottom line. I say, let them drink Bud Light.

Serious wine lovers - like art aficionados - need to support the right producers.  Insist on quality for money rather than money for quality; the converse suits us best and is not congruent with the original proposition.

For the woes of the California wine industry you need look no further than the fundamentals that drive the North American values.  At times, these fundamentals are suited to the manufacture of high quality widgets but never to the establishment of a robust and durable wine tradition that will endure through the centuries.  

That many so-called high-end wineries in California are being hoisted high in a common funeral procession to a mass grave comes as no surprise to me.  There is only so much real money to go around, so lets start spending it right.

 

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Reply by schellbe, Dec 5, 2010.

Riesling is my favorite white grape, but most people are not willing to pay for quality. Cabernet can be sold for $50, but most cheap Riesling sells for $10. Paying a little more gives a lot better quality.

Alas, some cold climate areas are trying to grow red wines because of the greater prices, even though Riesling or other cold weather wines are better matches. Finger Lakes is a good example of this. An occasional good Cabernet Franc and lighter Pinot Noir can be had but it's much better suited for Riesling and Gewurz. But the market dictates trying to grow reds.

CA on the other hand should stick to reds almost entirely, in my opinion. I did taste a couple of good Chardonnays recently, and some good bubblies, but they are the exception. And the Dry Rieslings seem flat to me, even those from the Anderson Valley. The last harvests wines are okay; a lot can be masked with sugar.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Dec 5, 2010.

The debate about what to grow where is a very interesting one and I concur with the theory that you should plant what grows best in the location.  The big question is what grows best? and how do you know without experimenting.

Many of Australias winemakers will try experimental blocks of other varieties to see how they perform in their area.  But as we all know this is really at least a ten year journey.

Pinot is a very good example, as I have mentioned in other threads, ten years ago we hardly produced a half decent pinot, but now with benefit of a lot of hard work and $ investment by some focussed winemakers we are now making some really good pinots.  Will we ever match the great grand crus of Burgundy, probably not for a long long time.  But that is OK if the winemakers are devoted to learning about the variety and how to make it better.

The large commercial wine businesses will always be looking for the next cheap FAD wine.  Something that can sell for <$15 or GBP10 and is cheap to make.  This should not be seen as a negative by us wine lovers because it is wine we probably will not drink but it does provide an affordable opportunity to enjoy wine for those on tight budgets or who really only want a pleasant drink.  They also serve as entry level wines for people at the beginning of their wine journey.  Don't forget your Uni/college/early working days!!!

But we should not underestimate the importance of quick to market wines for the smaller wine businesses.  These wines are important cashflow wines which if they can be made efficiently and cheaply will provide the funding for the businesses more serious wine making.

I know many wine businesses that are generating good cashflow by producing Rose, white blends and red blends which they can get quickly to market to assist in funding the good wine they have maturing in Oak.

So coming back to Riesling, we planted it in Clare and Eden Valley as both Regions do produce very distinctive regional flavours, in fact in Clare we have a number of very distinctive sub regions, Polish Hill, Watervale, Skilly Hills to name 3.  Each produces a very different Riesling.  Many of the larger Companies in Clare will also produce an entry level riesling which is a blend all of Clare for their lesser grapes.  These are often less interesting wines but nonetheless for the price an OK drink and provide important cashflow.

Many other Australian Regions produce really good riesling but only in small quantities generally from small blocks from a sub part of the region with a micro climate that works well for the grape.

I am sure Cali will have places that will grow great riesling, it just depends on finding the right blocks with the right sub climate [and one that repeats iitself reasonably frequently]

 

 

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Reply by zufrieden, Dec 5, 2010.

For what it may be worth, I rather like the (serious, usually bone-dry) Riesling style produced in Australia - though the supply abroad is generally restricted to the regions mentioned in earlier posts.

As in prior forum discussions on style, each region needs to develop its own personality and must support it with sound marketing and finance - my earlier remarks notwithstanding.

If I were to reconsider some of my earlier comments, I might better emphasize that we need a significant supply of lower end (but well-made) product to generate a base of incipient wine appreciation among the young or uninitiated.  I did not wish to sound too harsh when criticizing the current profit fetish; clearly, money must come from somewhere and must be rewarded when put to good use.  As an economist, I cannot escape that logic and remain consistent.

What I do not support is any cross-subsidy of quality product with plonk. All product should be produced on its own merits and marketed accordingly - like a certain fermented grain product I mentioned in my earlier post. There is no disgrace in having a "second wine" for the less well-heeled or for restaurant supply; but responding to fad will result in failure.  A fad is based on something of a gold-rush mentality - something we should be outgrowing in the New World wine industry.

Moreover, Riesling is of such a pedigree that it does really not need idiosyncratic markets to determine its long-run value.  The problem for the New World (and Old World industrial enterprises like those now found in the south of France) is to found a way to develop a personality.  This takes time and perhaps our relative youthfulness as a culture orients us more to the present moment and less to tradition (since we have little).

Eventually, though, we will have a history and with this storyline will come long experience and tradition.  That's still a way off and we will have to accept our pioneer status for some time yet to come. 

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Reply by dsandns, Dec 5, 2010.

Give some Riesling a try that are produced in Canada, especially from the Niagara-on-the-Lake producers. Riesling being a late ripener and not fussy about heat is quite suited to this area. With some very exclusive exceptions, much better than what is offered in South America and from the Auzzies.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, Dec 5, 2010.

Zuf

Whilst I am very much in agreement wwith your sentiment on "plonk", I think we need to recognise and acknowledge the difference between poorly made, over engineered, fad/junk/plonk and committed winemakers responding to the market demanding a wine style.

The Australian riesling makers have been one of the victims of the NZSB craze her in Australia where due to very poor or non existent marketing and a lack of focus on domestic consumers they lost a huge market share to NZSB, this was a case of a perception that riesling was either sweet or bland and that NZSB had this "wow" factor that attracted Women of all ages. 

Some riesling makers were certainly guilty of making bland wines but certainly not sweet ones. But all of them were guilty of losing touch with domestic consumers.

When the market turned its attention to Rose as a summer drink, there was a determination not to let this market opportunity slip - we actually did screw up with Rose in the 70's when Mateus Rose from Portugal flooded the country in response to the demand.

Many of a our winemakers have found it quite operationally easy to switch some red grapes to Rose and are maing some reasonably good quaffing Roses for the summer.  Personally they do not appeal to me but I know the economic reasons for the switch, again when the Rose fad drops off which it seems to always do, this fruit can be redirected back into the core red wines it was originally planted for.  TThere is no doubt some very very ordinary Rose will be made and those who do that will end up selling it for little margin at supermarkets and sadly probably help bring abount the end of the fad phase. But to give you an idea of the economic push demand for Rose here went from almost zero to in excess on a million 9L case equivalents in less than 2 years.

We consumers do not always make production planning easy.

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Reply by napagirl68, Dec 5, 2010.

schellbe- I agree with the sentiment that Finger Lakes should not do reds.  I was there recently, and the friend I was visiting told me, DON"T try the reds.  Of course I was stubborn.  Nasty... Stick to whites, finger lakes!!

Dsandns- wish I had read your post before I was last there...  I LOVE, LOVE Niagara-on-the-Lake.  What an adorable little town.  I was there for the Shaw film festival, and stayed in an adorable B&B.  Did not taste any Rieslings tho..  :-(:-( 

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