Wine Talk

Snooth User: Frozentoze

recommendation request for a good wine to age long

Posted by Frozentoze, May 16, 2011.

I am considering buying a wine from the year of my son's birth (2007) and aging it to open with him when his first child is born, so say 25-30 years if all goes according to plan. (A gamble with any child, I know).

I only have learned a modest amount about wine appreciation, enough to know I'd make a mistake selecting just any bottle and expecting it to age well over this time span.  So, I know I need to ask for a recommendation.

I could spend as much as perhaps $200 for this one bottle, but I dont have to if its not necessary.

A french colleage of mine, when posed this question, recommended Chateau Haut Marbuzet.  And a Bordeaux may be a nice choice since I've spent some time in France during these years of my children's birth - a nice connection but not a requirement.  Would you agree with this recommendation or offer another?

Also, I have another son born in 2010, and would like to purchase a 2010 vintage with the same plan in mind for him as well.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Replies

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Reply by dmcker, May 16, 2011.

Think you can choose from Bordeaux, Burgundy, the Rhone, the Loire and others in France, the Piedmont, Tuscany and others in Italy, Rioja and others in Spain, as well as California and Washington and others in the US, a few locations in Australia, etc., all with proven track records over 25 years or more. Some whites but mostly reds.

My recommendation is that you buy more than one bottle, since if it's a family event you'll go through more than one just at one sitting, and it'll be nice to be able to do it more than once, too.

So what kind of wines do you like to drink?

And how do you plan to store the bottle(s)? This is a key issue...

 

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Reply by tulaw, May 17, 2011.

Barolo is also a good choice (see dm's remark on the Piedmont).  A good vintage Nebbiolo is a grape that ages very well, and that would be my choice.

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Reply by Richard Foxall, May 17, 2011.

Here I go again: Northern Rhones.  Some aren't even close to ready for almost that long. But RP didn't think 2007 was great in the North, only the South. So choose carefully.

If you like sweet, Sauternes.  Port.  But if you are going with the table/dinner wine, Cote Rotie, Hermitage, maybe Cornas.  As well as Barolo. 

Luckily, 2007 is also considered another "vintage of a lifetime" in Napa.  Try to find ones that have a history of great aging.  I would be willing to bet on Chappellet Pritchard Hill, well made and restrained wines from grapes grown in ToKalon, and I am sure people have lots of other ideas. 

Usually people are talking about a birth year bottle for 21 years of storing, but you are pushing it a little farther, so I think you need to look at the track records, and for aging, the Italians and the French have it. I love Cal wines, having grown up here and knowing folks in Napa and Sonoma who make some of my favorites, but 30 is pushing it, IMO.

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Reply by JonDerry, May 17, 2011.

Think Cali wines these days will have a much harder time making it 25-30 years, but there could be some select wines to target that can go that distance.  Ridge Monte Bello might be as good a bet as any at around $100.  07 Shafer Hillside Select is sure to be a blockbuster and solid ager, but will run a bit over $200 and will be more of a challenge to track down, but could be worth it. 

Bordeaux, Barolo, or Brunellos tend to age better in general.  Problem is, 2007 is not a very good vintage for Bordeaux, and that's a bummer.  Brunello's will not be available for purchase until around this time 2012 or a little bit after, and 2006 was a blockbuster vintage so 07 is likely to be seen as a little inferior.  Barolo's have a very distinct taste that not everyone likes, but 2007 looks to be a strong vintage for Nebbiolo.  You might want to try an entry level Barolo (made from Nebbiolo grapes) from a good producer just to see if you like the general taste.  I'd recommend trying a 2007 Vietti Langhe Nebbiolo Perbacco if you're interested going down the Italian path.

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Reply by Stephen Harvey, May 18, 2011.

07 Pretty average in most of Australia although some good ones from Margaret River

07 Cullen Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot

07 Voyager Estate Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot

07 Moss Wood Cabernet Sauvignon

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Reply by Girl Drink Drunk, May 18, 2011.

All of our advice is pointless if you don't have proper temperature and humidity controlled storage, OP.  Without it, your wine will have a shelf life of five years, max.  At the very, very least, you need a cool, dark place that doesn't go above 70 degrees.  If you have good storage, keep reading.

Personally, I'd go Barolo, but I'd always go Barolo.  07 was a solid vintage in Piemonte.

I'd stay out of CA, even though 07 was a great vintage.  Even the best juice will be hard pressed to make it to 25+ years, IMO.  Like Jon above, if I had to pick one CA bottle, I'd go Ridge Monte Bello and keep my fingers crossed. 

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Reply by collectorconsulting, May 19, 2011.

Hello

 

I would suggest some very good wines, but very good value for the money also 07 isnt that bad its less than 06 and 08....but its very good and will get better with time.

You dont need to spend a fortune.... try to get few bottles of chateau robin : www. chateau-robin.com

or

 

chateau canon gaffeliere

or 

 

chateau canon

buy 5 to 6 bootles,  it will cost you approx usd 200 for that, open one in five years, see how it is... then one in 10 years....then in 15 years...and if you resisted so far to open more you will still have 1 or 2 bootle for the big day.

 

Enjoy

 

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Reply by duncan 906, May 23, 2011.

2007 was not considered a particularly good vintage in Bordeaux but Burgundy was another story.If I were in your position I wouls seriously think about some quality Burgundy

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Reply by collectorconsulting, May 24, 2011.

when you can get a good wine for a good value.....2007 isnt that bad... specially for some small production bordeaux...

but if you wanna talk about real wine the vintage 2006 , 2008, 2009, 2010 coming out now on primeur yes thats a different categorie and also budget

 

 

 

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Reply by Frozentoze, Jun 4, 2011.

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Time to pull this into a shopping list and see what I can turn up.

Thanks for advising about the multiple bottles - its a good point.  We can get a few different ones for the occasion.

As for aging, I intend to fashion a crate that will have the bottles on their side and nail it shut.  I will then probably keep it stored at my father-in-law's house with a basement - temps between 50 - 70oF.  If I kept it at my own house temps would range from 65-78 as there is no basement here and I dont have one of those wine refrigerators.

Seems its too early to pick a 2010.

I'll let you know what 2007s I select.  Thanks.

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Reply by dmcker, Jun 4, 2011.

Good to see you answering back, Frozentoze. Again I'd like to ask, what kinds of wines do you like to drink? There are a number of recommendations that haven't yet been made that could, depending on the type you like....

Now is a good time to buy 2007s. And yes, the 2010s, especially those that will age the desired length of time, haven't been release yet, and won't be for a couple more years.

Oh yeah, I suppose one other question is where are you located? This may affect the availability of shipping options.

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Reply by gregt, Jun 4, 2011.

2007 is supposed to be a good year in Napa.  That doesn't mean the wines will keep 30 years.  It's the best vintage ever anywhere in the world in the S. Rhone but I'm not willing to bet on keeping any of those wines. There are better vintages in Rioja.  I'd probably try to store something from Tuscany - it wasn't too bad there.  And if you're adventurous, something from Washington - Andrew Will perhaps, Cadence although we don't know what happens to those, maybe a few others.  Was a good year for whites up in the NW of Spain, but we don't know if those will hang on 30 years either. Maybe some whites? 

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Reply by dmcker, Jun 4, 2011.
Edited Jun 4, 2011

If you're going for whites, the safe bets would be some Sauternes or Barsac from Bordeaux (something below d'Yquem for budgetary reasons of course), or some Beerenausleses or Trockenbeerenausleses from the Rhine or Mosel, or some Tokaji. These are all sweet dessert wines, but are great to have in the mix. I was happy I laid down some for my daughters' birth years.

Some bubbly, particularly vintage champagne (and not cava or prosecco) will reliably last that long, but the better ones will also come with a hefty price tag. Selective searching among the 2007s will pay off, and don't hesitate to ask here if you have certain labels in mind.

Then again, a Mayacamas chardonnay from Napa might perhaps last that long. ;-)  Some aficionados claim Burgundy whites can last that long, but you'll have to be very picky, and price will again be an issue. What say you about the Loire, Greg? I can think of one dry Savennieres that would be a candidate....

Along the lines of the dessert wines, Foxall has already mentioned Port, which would also be good in the mix.

Collector Consulting, I'm afraid I'd be afraid to lay down a Chateau Robin (if you mean the one from Cotes Castillon, forget about the one from Lussac St. Emilion) for that long and expect it to shine. Maybe in its very best vintage, but not a 2007. Even the Chateau Canon (St. Emilion) would be a bit of a crapshoot after 20+ years. I've drunk a lot of that wine over a 30 year period and it rarely does well that long out (though when it does it shines). A 2007 might give me pause. That being said, I'd definitely choose the Canon over the Robin. And I'd buy 3-6 each since they're cheap but drink 5 of the Robins and 4 of the Canons long before that time....

As GDD mentioned, storage is key, especially for this level of wine.

Frozentoes, depending on your budget, it might be interested to store a few of these borderline bottles, but focus most on the barolos and certain Californians (Mayacamas cab, Togni cab, Ridge Montebello, etc.) and the Tuscans and a couple other Bordeaux. And then those dessert wines.

I stored two cases each for my daughters. I figured one for family functions like birthdays, and the other for wedding-related events. Well they're both well into their 20s now, and no weddings are on the horizon, but we're down to two or three bottles each. Wish I'd laid down more, especially as I look around trying to acquire bottles that old in the current marketplace.

Obviously I and my family drink more wine than average. Nonetheless, I'm confident you'll be pleased with your foresight if you lay down more than you think you might need....

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Reply by Frozentoze, Jun 5, 2011.

As to answer the question of my tastes, well, I am but a beginner so my descriptions here will sound quite immature to the forum in my opinion - much of the reason I solicited your suggestion rather than picking on my own bottle to store.

7 years ago I disliked wine, and would only tolerate very sweet roses, fun blends and some reisling.  I got married and over time I regularly drank wine with my new father-in-law, who is not well versed in wine either but enjoys drinking it.  I would choke down more common varieties of wine as a way to spend time with him.  Over years of this I have very gradually changed my tastes to appreciate different wines.  By the third year I no longer liked super sweet wines and started to enjoy syrah, shiraz and some red blends as well as at least a tolerance of chardonnay.  Now, 7 years in, I would say I can now distinguish between really good and really bad wine and have broadened my appreciation to most types.

Today, I would say my favorite wines are either Pino Noir or red blends that include Pinot Noir or Cabernet Franc in signfigance.  I enjoy drinking other types as well but wouldn't choose those over the prior types if I had the choice.  When visiting France it seems every bottle we drink is really good, but as I read the labels they always seem to be a blend of grapes with descriptions in French, so its tough to learn that way.  I've lost affinity for whites but drink them to get along with others who like them.  Truthfully, there is probably a new favorite of mine waiting out there that I havent been exposed to yet.  Sort of what makes this slow journey interesting.

I also really have not found a great link between wine and food that is so popular amongst others.  My favorite way to drink wine is with fancy cheese, or american cheese sometimes, crackers or other snacks and not with a meal.

Knowing how much my tastes in wine have changed over the past few years and how long I intend to keep the bottles Im shopping for now, I try not to let that play to big a role since who knows what I or my family will appreciate years from now.

As to the question about my location, I currently live in Houston, TX, but I visit my in-laws in northeast Ohio occasionally and plan to store the bottles Im shopping for there, where there is a basement.

Thanks again

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Reply by gregt, Jun 5, 2011.

Frozen - don't worry about your palate and your descriptions!  There's no switch that turns on suddenly and makes you know more about wine than you did the day before. It's OK!

But you were smart to realize that your palate has changed a bit. That's what makes it really hard to select a wine today for 30 years hence.  Still, I think the suggestions for sweet wines were pretty good.  If stored well, they can last quite a while.  Fortified wines like Ports and Madeira and Sherry and Maury and Banyuls too, but then not everyone likes the extra sugar and in the case of the latter, the extra alcohol.

So you kinda have to pick carefully.  And when people say something is a "good" vintage, know what they mean - not everyone means the same thing.  I was kind of tongue in cheek regarding my comment on 2007 in the S. Rhone being the greatest vintage ever anywhere, but a very prominent wine critic said exactly that.  It's a really ripe vintage and a lot of the wines are big, fruity, and ripe.  Honestly, I've tried dozens and dozens and I don't think I'd lay many down for keeping.  They can be good today, but that doesn't mean they'll be great in a few years. Same with Napa in 2007. Wines that are super-ripe and fruity in their youth don't often turn into something complex with age. Same hold true for wines that had no fruit in their youth - they don't evolve into complex, delicious aged gems.  

Problem is that many places don't have a long history of producing ageable wine 30 years, at least not in our lifetimes. Piedmonte does and of the major regions in 2007, that may have the most potential.  Tuscany too and actually since you like Cab Franc - I'd look at something from Bolgheri - they do fantastic Merlot and Cab Franc there and I'd personally select a few of those over most Bordeaux in the 2007 vintage.  And maybe a top-end Loire red. 

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Reply by zufrieden, Jun 11, 2011.

Without wading through the entire thread let me put it ot you this way: ensure that the wine will not outlast you - or, at the very least, play the probabilities based on the best available knowledge.  And to this I add the following caveat: most modern wines are crafted to be drunk within 2-5 years - even many of the best.  Some Old World wines are exempted from this warning, but probably not for long.  As demand increases, supply must as well; that's the Adamsian way. So expect the age-worthy wines to be an even smaller percentage of the total production in future (and that percentage was always low - less than 5% - if you accept my rough estimate).

Cheers!

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Reply by geompat, Jan 8, 2012.

No brainer.  Vintage port.  A good VP doesn't reach maturity for 20+ years and will last 50+.  And they are absolutely yummy.  2007 was an excellent declared vintage.  I would go with Taylor, Fonseca, or Dow.  Can't go wrong.  07 Dow actually got a 100pt rating.  Enjoy!


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