Wine Talk

Snooth User: wlstiles3

Petite Sirah

Posted by wlstiles3, Dec 4, 2009.

Just got into my first bottle of Petite Sirah. Bogle 07. I am very much enjoying this varietal. This looks very appealing in the glass and has nice blueberry fruit, but not jammy, earthy notes working around in the background. Nice complexity.

Any suggestions on another representative?

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Replies

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Reply by kylewolf, Dec 4, 2009.

Bogle petite syrah may be one of the best petites for the money. I always make sure I have a couple of bottles on hand. You found a good bargain.

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Reply by gregt, Dec 5, 2009.

"has blueberry fruit but not jammy, earthy notes. . ."

Not sure what to make of that note.

Anyhow, petite sirah is a pretty tannic and often monolithic grape, used to add depth and color and tannin to wines lacking in some of those. In a few cases, it can be a pretty good variety on its own. Bogle is like Foppiano or Parducci - OK, not exceptional. I think if you want to explore the grape's potential, you really need to get some with a little age, which is hard to do. It's a grape that has more to offer than sometimes thought, but only in the hands of good producers. I think Ridge did a PS from time to time. Fife definitely did one, don't know if they still do. Michael-David up in Mendocino makes a big, juicy one. Stag's leap in Napa makes a tannic one that may open with time. Turley makes one that seems to hold up better than their zins.

All of those are more money than the Bogle tho. So it depends on what you want to spend. In CA, I think PS is supposed to be Durif these days, although the vineyards that grow PS may not have been planted with Durif originally. But that's a whole different thread. In any event, you can find a few from Australia, which is interesting because the sunlight seems to tame some of the tannins.

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Reply by WineForNewbies2, Dec 5, 2009.

I have to agree that the Bogle PS is a nice wine, but not entirely representative of Petite Sirah. Most of the PS on the market is big, chewy, and has enough tannin to leave your tongue firmly stuck to the roof of your mouth. There are lots of reasons to like PS, but the Bogle can lead one to some false conclusions.

Don't get me wrong--I like the Bogle PS, but not as a PS itself. :-)

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Reply by wlstiles3, Dec 5, 2009.

I meant that it has some blueberry fruit flavors, but not like blueberry jam, which has that sugary something in it. The earthy notes were mostly oak, maybe a little leather. Sorry if my command of the English language offends your clearly heightened sensibilities. Although, I hardly think this forum requires such refinements. And if you were trying to establish that you have a superior knowledge of wine, I concede. However, and in my own vastly inferior way, I will continue to enjoy the fruit of the vine. I will also continue to give my humble tasting notes and critiques, some of the lesser folk may find them useful.

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Reply by WineForNewbies2, Dec 5, 2009.

Whoa, wlstiles3, I don't think GregT was trying to slam your command of the English language or the tasting note, or your knowledge of wine. I saw it as simply offering a different perspective and providing some information you might find useful. We are all still learning, regardless of our current level of experience.

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Reply by TL NJ, Dec 5, 2009.

WLSTILES - Im a big fan of Petite Sirah as well. If your looking for a good, every day "introduction: to PS - then you definitely hit the mark on the first shot! Bogle is a great PS for the money. If im ever in a PS mood, and Bogle is the first I see - ill grab it, and it never lets me down.

I think what some others are saying here, is that "traditionally" you will find most other PS's being a lot more bigger and jammier - so if you liked the fact that this one was not "too" jammy, then you may be disappointed when you try some others. That said - I agree with WineForNewbies comment - Bogle is a great bottle of wine, but not necessarily a great PS.

So...to answer your original question - "any suggestions" - I would recommend you try Rosenblum and Concannon. They are similar to Bogle as they are good "introductions" to PS - so if you like them as well, you may want to keep on experimenting with the varietal (e.g., Foppiano and Stag's Leap).

Have you tried Zinfandel? You may be interested - they too are fruity and earthy, and most of the $20 and unders are not "jammy". Give it a shot (if you havent already) and let us know what you think.

Oh, and one other thing - the best "wine advice" I ever received, and ever gave is this - "drink and like what you like". That said there are thousands of people on this site that are very enthusiastic and passionate about wine - most of them (including me!) are pretty vocal about their passion - which is why we love this site - so definitely take the comments you receive with a grain of salt, understand everyone's intentions are good, and remember its all in the name of good fun - no need to feel insulted or to insult about anything.

Cheers!!

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Reply by CTwine, Dec 5, 2009.

I am a BIG fan of the Girard Petite Sirahs. It doesn't really matter what vintage. They have been consistantly good. It has plenty of blueberry, black cherry and some lilac aromas. On the palate it is big with blueberries, blackberries and plum along with some nice spiciness. Another PS that I like is by Vino Robles. Although it is a CA winery, the winemaker is Swiss and produced more of a European red that is not so bold as the CA Petite Sirahs. Enjoy.

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Reply by wlstiles3, Dec 5, 2009.

WFN2, my attitude toward Greg T is a carry over from a previous Greg T reply. I'm generally not that guy, but I have little patience for condescension. To Greg T, If I have miss characterized your post, my apologies.

On the subject, I just had a what was left in the bottle from last night. Still impressed with this $9 bottle of wine. Considering the real backbone in this wine, I'm wondering if a few years would not make it even better.

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Reply by gregt, Dec 5, 2009.

Goodness wlstiles3, I wasn't trying to be offensive. I really didn't know what you were saying in the note. Thanks for your clarification.

FYI - frequently when people talk about blueberry flavors, they link those to jammy qualities and big fruit and often when you get those blueberry notes, you don't get the earthiness. Not always, but blueberry is hard to pick up and generally is associated with pretty clean winemaking, at least in my limited experience. OTOH, the earthy flavors and aromas can come from many things, because that word is fairly broad. So it sometimes refers to brett or bacteria or sulfur or some reductiveness. It's why I didn't get the mix but as you so politely clarified, you picked up precisely what you wrote. My mistake for not reading it literally and assuming something not there. Apologies.

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Reply by wlstiles3, Dec 6, 2009.

I would like you to all know that I replied to Greg T like a horse's arse over a misunderstanding on my part. I have taken the appropriate steps to mend the fence with Greg, hope I did not dampen the mood here. I truly enjoy this forum and the people in it. Apologies to all.

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Reply by Martingauthier, Dec 6, 2009.

wlstiles3,

No offense. Greg T did that to me couple of months ago. At first I had the same reaction as yours. I had the chance to meet with him and I can tell you that he his a real passionate person. His partner told me that he's really wine savvy. My ten cents is that we should continue to have discussion over wine the way we want. Greg will continue to comments with is very professional way, we can do it in our passionate-amateur way. Both are great!

wlstiles3 please continue to post in your own way. Your participation makes this forum very lively. I don't want this place to be for professional only.

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Reply by gregt, Dec 6, 2009.

Holy cow. Martin I'm sorry if I offended you too!! Anyhow, really folks, I haven't done it intentionally. I really hate that in other people and maybe my sense of humor is a little different, but know-it-alls and unpleasant people. We're all learning all the time and any information is good information, as long as it's either accurate or funny. And yeah wlstiles3, of course keep posting and no apologies required ever, at least on my side. I have a pretty thick skin. Sort of like a petite sirah grape with a lot of tannin. . .

And I don't know where you live but if you're in town, maybe we can get together at some point. Martin - who told you I was wine savvy? You realize they were lying of course.

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Reply by Martingauthier, Dec 6, 2009.

Hey GregT, no worries mate. Your the main reason why this place is so full of great information. We met two weeks ago. Let me give you some hints - Deutz, Cheval Blanc, Cos D'estournel, Stratego! : )

Keep up the great work. You guys are the best.

Martin Gauthier

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Reply by dmcker, Dec 6, 2009.

That is one of the problems of email/chat/whatever. It's very hard to get nuances across. All sorts of info that're there on various levels when we talk face-to-face just don't get across via email--whether it's irony, tongue-in-cheek, mildly tinged sarcasm, a bit of glee in a riposte, certain dialectic joys, what have you. That's why I use those lame smileys so often, so that I can add a little more info about my intentions, and hope that the feeling I have while writing can link just a bit more directly to those the reader might have. ;-)

If anyone were to develop a narrow-bandwidth cyber messaging tool that could communicate even half the info that actual speech does with its backchanneling, body language, etc. he or she would quickly become one very wealthy individual...

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Reply by Martingauthier, Dec 6, 2009.

You are so right mate. Thanks to you as well dmcker. Your input within this community is major! ; - ) !

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Reply by gregt, Dec 6, 2009.

It's true.

And of course there is the continuing problem with the edit function because now I realize I have somehow sliced of half a sentence in a prior post above so it makes absolutely no sense.

Anyhow, nuance and especially sarcasm is something you really have a hard time getting across in general, not to mention on chat boards.

I once told a friend at dinner that if he didn't get the bottle open soon I was going to take the corkscrew from his hands and stick it into his eyeball. Someone down at the end of the table leaned over to her companion and quietly told her that I was a very dangerous person who needed therapy to deal with my anger issues.

The poor dear probably had nightmares for weeks.

At least I hope she did.

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Reply by chadrich, Dec 7, 2009.

I'm drifting back to the request for recommendation of other PSs, and the subsequent suggestion for ones with some age. F Teldeschi in the Russian River Valley makes some great, huge, highly extracted wines and usually holds them until they've had some age to tame them a bit (but not too much). I really enjoy their PS. Not as aged, but equally good are the Petites from Vincent Arroyo.

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Reply by gregt, Dec 7, 2009.

Drifting back to the topic are we??

Interesting that you mention Teldeschi. Somewhere i have a bottle from the 80s and until I saw your post I hadn't even thought about it. Some guy from the winery gave it to me years ago. It wasn't my intention to keep it this long, but in the near future I'm going to take my own suggestion and drink it.

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Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Dec 8, 2009.

Hi Martin, wrong Greg!

But that's ok. I'm the nicer one anyway.

GregT is a fine fellow, a little rough around the edges perhaps, nothing a day of grooming wouldn't help. One nice thing about him is that he takes it aas well as he gives it. We're New Yorkers after all.

Anyway back on topic. Petty Sarah. I love me some petty Sarah, was just eyeballing a lone bottle of the 1974 Burgess in the cellar but that will have to wait. I did a round up of Petites last year with some interesting results.

http://www.snooth.com/articles/wine...

I need to start lining up next year's crop in the near future. There are many wines that are produced in 100s of version but one nice thing about Petite is that it's almost reasonable to expect to be able to taste every producers version every year. I'm gonna see if I can pull that one off in 2010!

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Reply by gregt, Dec 8, 2009.

Sounds like a solid plan. And the nice thing about this little turn of events is that we find out that YOU are the one who was initially offensive, which really makes a lot more sense after all.

Best!

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