Wine Talk

Snooth User: Stephen Harvey

Need advice on US Pinots

Posted by Stephen Harvey, Sep 6, 2010.

I have found a specialist Pinot Retailer in Australia who socks some US [Oregon only] Pinot

Can I get some advice/views on the following

Beaux Freres

Willamette 2007 - AUD126

The Vineyard 2007 - AUD190

Chehalem

3 Vineyard 2007  - AUD66

Reserve 2005 - AUD126

Cristom

Sommers 2006 - AUD84

Elk Cove

Willamette 2007 - AUD54

Evesham Wood

Willamette 2008 - AUD40

Le Puits Sec 2007 - AUD68

Cuvee J 2007 - AUD90

The Eyrie Vineyards

2006 - AUD66

2007 - AUD66

Scott Paul

La Paulee 2006 - AUD79

William Hatcher

Willamette Valley 2005 - AUD84

Thanks as always for the advice

1 2 next

Replies

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 6, 2010.

Eyrie is who originally put Oregon on the world pinot map. I haven't had all that much of their wine since the early '90s, though.

I'd start with the Beaux Freres and Evesham Wood (and the Eyrie for context). Try more than one variety of each (even though it looks like Beaux Freres has a pricey specialty niche down there). Then try Chehelem and the others as your pocketbook allows.

Why Oregon only? I like them very much, but also Sonoma, and maybe the latter better, though I'm happy both exist....

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 7, 2010.

Looking for for other than Oregon but finding them seems like a challenge

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 7, 2010.

Oregon's a fine enough place to start.

You can buy Sonoma bottles, anyway, from BPWine, KLWines, Benchmark et al. Considering the markups I've seen in the prices you quote, there should be a way to intelligently configure shipments from the States so as to keep prices reasonable....

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 7, 2010.

D - The issue will be that once the wine hits here it cops 29% WET {a tax} and 10%GST, which explains mark ups

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 7, 2010.

So what does a US$30 bottle cost to get to you via shipment from a US-based online merchant, vs. purchase from an old-skool local-realestate wine merchant in your neighborhood (that sports a much paltrier selection)?

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 7, 2010.

D - The only difference would be retailer margin and GST point

If I buy a $30 bottle online I will need to pay 29% WET and then 10%GST upon entry into Australia ie 30x (1/.9) x 1.29 x 1.1 = AUD47.30.

note as with all taxes duties etc there is issues in relation to freight and how that works into the calc

I would presume the Aussie bottleshop would buy it wholesale say at USD20, it  would land in aust at 24x (1/.9) x 1.29 x margin =1.3 x1.1 = AUD49.20

Off course this is an oversimplification given distributors and other burglars and taxing points etc but rough rule whatever USD price you see it will be around 60% more in AUD for me to purchase

Viva la govt charges!!!!!!

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 7, 2010.

I understand the theory. I'm instead asking about what real prices are in real brick and mortar wineshops in your neighborhood. I'm sure local merchants have that feel-for-what-the-market-will-bear supply/demand fudgefactor motating. My guess is that the personal importing will still be cheaper, even with shipping costs and import duties....

And sorry if I don't display too much sympathy, but Japan up to the end of the '80s used to have 100% duties based on all costs up to entry into the country (CIF). Which meant that often 'local' wineries would import must in petroleum-sized drum cans from the likes of Hungary, Bulgaria and Tunisia or Algeria. They would then chaptalize, add yeast (who knows, maybe Fleischmann's baker's) and hot water and stir things up inside decapitated supersized metal barrels (must've figured it was required because of how they were imported...) until some sort of reaction occurred. Bottle and label as Japanese wine and sell to that segment of the population who always figures Japanese products are best....

 

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 7, 2010.

Understand your point but lack of product on shelves makes it difficult

The prices listed are with a specialist pinot importer so are probably best indicator of our market

The must story is familiar - we have a company which takes water out of cheap bulk wine to produce a concentrate which is them exported into SE Asia and then has water added pachaged and bingo Aussie wine - great way to market a brand.......

7029
2915
Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Sep 7, 2010.

Ignoring the prices and looking only at the producers while keeping in mind the character of the vinatges

2008 is a bit big but very well balanced

2007 is truly downright Burgundian

2006 is a very complete vintage

2005 is lighter styled and drinking very well

I would try the Beaux Freres, Chehalem, Elk Cove, Eyrie and Scott Paul - all worth investigating

20
2509
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 7, 2010.

I like all these calls on the Oregon, but want to put in a word for a couple of my favorites.  Scherrer in Sonoma County makes some really fine pinots.  A good place to start is the Sonoma County, which is drinking great in the 2006 version right now.  It's mostly from the same vineyard that the more expensive pinot comes from, but about 1/3 less expensive.  You'll have to order online, call or fax the winery. Do not ignore pinots from the Santa Lucia Highlands in Monterey county.  Roar (you won't find it retail, go to roarwines.com) beats the Burgundians in blind tests routinely.  RP says it's the best pinot in the US, if you care about that. The '07 was just released to the club and I put in for three bottles.  It's 50 USD. Just thinking about this pinot is making me thirsty.

20
2509
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 7, 2010.

I think the Elk Cove is kind of pricey, but then I think all these seem heavily marked up from the US price.  More than 60%.  Seems like maybe there's a business for you in there, SH.  Another highly regarded producer is Domaine Serene.  My francophile wine buddy says the Yamhill district pinot is the equal of much great burgundy. It goes for $45-ish here. 

 

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 7, 2010.

A note on Evesham Wood. Ownership/management changed last month, so I'll be taking a different look at what might be coming from them from their 2009 vintage releases on.

My comments on pricing above issued from judgment very much in line with the thinking Foxall expresses.

Quite a bit of discussion has taken place in forum (and article-comments threads) about good pinot noir in Oregon and Sonoma and elsewhere. A few minutes searching the forum (and the articles bank for that piece Greg did on Oregon pinots) would pay off.

I often think Snooth needs to come up with a better way to reference all the good (not saying that everything said here has been good, but plenty has...) content that's appeared in the expanding bank of forum threads. I proposed that Snooth produce a winewiki nearly 18 months ago, and still think it's a great idea that noone yet has jumped on.

But that's a subject for another thread....

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 8, 2010.

The pricing is unfortunately to do with our taxes as they are value based as I explained in that other thread with DMcker question there.

I also expect lack of competition is in play here too.

I can buy AUD50+ wine cheaper in UK than here

20
2509
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 8, 2010.

I like the idea of a reverse value tax on alcohol.  Make cheap alcohol (grain/juce mixers, like hard lemonade; "fortified" wines like Cisco; crappy beer) more expensive so that they are harder to abuse.  I can't really recall any of my friends who became alcoholics starting with first growths, or anything like them. Can't say I have worked out the details of it, but if Australia wants to pay me a consulting fee, I would be happy to run a test program there.  I think my wide-ranging tastes would prevent any conflict of interest favoring California, but I am willing to drink all my wine and spirits without labels, as long as SH or a person of similar expertise picks them out for me. As I said, when the $5 a bottle difference turns into $6.25, it discourages consumption.  Why not discourage it where it does some good?

20
5977
Reply by dmcker, Sep 8, 2010.

Like your thinking, Foxall, but I'll be really impressed if you or Stephen can get some committee of government bureaucrats or even politicians to buy it.... ;-)

152
1826
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 9, 2010.

too bad that is all you can get?  Beaux Freres is a good wine but PRICEY..  there are so many other, and sometimes, smaller, wineries in Oregon that have a lot to offer in the way of pinots and not so pricey... I like Sokol Blosser, Bethel Heights, and Tyee (like their pinot gris as well).  A tour through Willamette is a necessity..   Don't miss Dundee Hills AVA...

Stephen, you just GOTTA come out to CA and Oregon.. such small scale good stuff going on.. it is truely mind-blowing.

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 9, 2010.

ng - what you say is true here, so many small guys doing some great things

Stephen George from Ashton Hills is really kicking Goals with his pinot and so are the guys from Main Ridge in Mornington but volumes too small to export.

I will try to see how I can scam a trip to CA in 2011.

27
1257
Reply by Stephen Harvey, Sep 9, 2010.

DMcK & Foxall

Interesting the Aust govt did a major tax review [Henry review] this year which recommended a volumetric tax on wine which effectively does what Foxall suggests. but lobbying by the Grape Growers Assoc resulted in the Government deferring and decision on that tax until the industry had restructured itself and reduced the oversupply.

So it is on the agenda, but I must say there is more binge drinking issues arising from commercail spirits than wine and commercial spirits does not contribute to employment in regional areas in Aust.

Tough question - many pros and cons

20
2509
Reply by Richard Foxall, Sep 9, 2010.

Okay, SH, dmcker and I will have to start a new thread:  Fair taxation of wine and spirits.  I am sure that we will be the only contributors.  But when SH gets to the Bay Area, I see a major pinot trip in NG's and my future... that would be fun to host.

152
1826
Reply by napagirl68, Sep 9, 2010.

@ foxall-  fun! fun!!

1 2 next



Continue to the end of the thread to reply
Back to Categories

Top Contributors This Month

125836 Snooth User: dmcker
125836dmcker
98 posts
324443 Snooth User: outthere
324443outthere
66 posts
847804 Snooth User: EMark
847804EMark
62 posts

Categories

View All





Snooth Media Network