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Wine Talk

Snooth User: Eric Guido
Do critics talk...
Posted by Eric Guido, Sep 26.

I thought about this after seeing the 88 point score that Suckling gave to the Felsina Chianti Rancia 2006. You put that against Antonio's 95 point score and it really makes me wonder if critics ever have the desire or opportunity to compare notes.

If it was me that gave a new wine 95 points, I'd really want to know why the other critic saw it in such a different light. Heck, I'd go nuts wanting to know why.

We see differing scores on a regular basis but this is quite a point swing. I know palates are different but that different?? Especially since Spectator seemed to enjoy Felsina so much in the '04 vintage.

THis also made me wonder about other large point swings that may stick out in other readers minds.

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Reply by dmcker, Sep 26.

I don't personally know either of those critics, or have any access to their cyber-messaging, etc. Nor have I even seen the two reviews you reference, Eric. But going by simple human psychology, might not one critic dislike another, whether their personality or palate, and want to make a point about showing them up? Or perhaps one of the critics may not want to let a certain winery or wine appear too favorably, for whatever reason. Many reasons to skew something that is supposed to be somewhat objective but is, actually, hugely subjective. Happens all the time in all sorts of fields, so why not wine?

Having had a bottle of the Rancia '06 just recently that had been hand-carried from Tuscany to Tokyo, I personally think there must have been something wrong with Suckling's palate at the time he did the tasting. The wine is lovely, and much better than an 88 in today's inflated scoring climate. Then, of course, there's always the possibility that it might have been an off bottle...

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Reply by schellbe, Sep 27.

Looking at the shelf talkers and the magazine ads, e.g. Zachys, Premier Cru, the ratings of Bordeaux, Barolo, and other wines do not seem to vary that much. That is, from my casual, admittedly unscientific observation. Parker and Wine Spectator ratings for a given wine are usually fairly close (wihin 3-5 points).

That said, one may not agree with either of them, as there are whole classes of wine that I do not like, and to my tasting, do not merit even 80 points. Best to ignore ratings, unless you like that style of wine and are aware of the biases of the reviewer.

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Reply by GregT, Sep 27.

schellbe - that's because for the most part, wines fall into categories that are broadly understood and agreed upon. You need to search a bit if you want to find wines that are really far apart. We did a blind tasting a while ago of Spanish wines that were at least six points different between the WA and WS, and I scored them myself as well. In most cases I aligned with the WS, which was the lower, but in one or two cases I was lower than both and in a few I split the difference. Remember that WS is not a single critic, so you need to know who is covering the particular area, and Parker doesn't cover Spain either, so I guess this would be Miller vs Matthews. But for most wines the two review, their scores are not really far apart.

In some cases people differ due to palate preferences - for example, some people are more sensitive to bitterness or saltiness than others. But in such cases, their differences should be consistent and also, they should be able to tell a bad quality wine vs one that is good but not to their personal taste.

The times when critics really differ are interesting. In some cases, I think it is simple jealousy. Reading them, you get the impression that some prominent British critics are still miffed that Parker is the pre-eminent critic in the world. They after all, might be "Masters of Wine", which is a designation I'm increasingly unimpressed by, and he has taught himself. But after a few thousand wines and years of study, whether you were able to regurgitate someone else's ideas on a test becomes meaningless. So the 2003 Pavie for example, becomes almost personal. Parker loved it and Robinson called it a "ridiculous wine", whatever that is supposed to mean. I guess it means "meow".

As far as talking, that would be a bad idea for the most part, and some critics actively avoid participating on panels or in tastings with other critics. I believe that's true for both WA and WS and it makes good sense because otherwise those events would just become catfights. Outside of those, you do run into your colleagues from time to time and it's just like anything else. If you're confident enough to be a critic, you're not going to change or alter your opinion because of someone else's opinion.

However, I think that a lot of bloggers and amateurs and people who post notes on things like Cellar Tracker do that. Think about it - you went out and bought a bottle based on someone's score. You already predisposed yourself to like it. How useful is your opinion and more importantly, how independent? Not to mention that I can't make sense out of most people's tasting notes anyway. They list a hundred things they claim they were able to discern in the wine. I'm drinking the same wine and I'm thinking WTF is in their glass.

As far as the Rancia, I haven't had it but I'll hazard a guess. The 2006 vintage, from everything I've been able to taste for the past few years, is just outstanding in Tuscany. Galloni loves those wines. To men, Rancia has always underperformed in that it's supposed to be the more special bottling and it costs a few bucks more than the regular Classico, but it's never actually lived up to it's role IMHO. I always like those wines and I think they're always really solid values and in a restaurant, those are always perfect choices if the rest of the list is iffy. And personally, I've never scored that wine more than 88 - 90 points. Sucking is hard to predict because I think he's all over the map, but I can understand his score based on my experience with the wine and the vintage. Galloni is a good critic because he's consistent and in his world, that score probably makes sense. But like I said, he loves those wines I always subtract a few points from his scores and I can pretty well tell where my evaluation will be as a result. Again, I don't recall trying that wine but if I were to come across his score, I'd probably think to myself that it's going to be a nice 91 point wine.

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Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Sep 28.

Hey I talk to Greg every now and again.

I don't know the answer, or maybe I do but am not able to share but let me say that most critics don't care what other people have to say about the wines they have graded.

They have become successful because they are confident in their proclamations and enough of the buying public shares that confidence.

Ultimately the critics undoing is going to be the moment when everyone realizes that there are very few absolutes with wine and that preferences really are personal. If you believe these premises than there really is no reason for one critic to confer with another.

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Reply by afinta, Sep 28.

I want to say this gently but I think it should be said - and that is I wouldn't exactly hang on Suckling's reviews. There is too much intrigue, politics, and money in the wine business in Italy. Let's just say that it seems his palate can be influenced, from various anecdotes I have heard.

Another way to say it would be this - for every wine that gets 95 points or Tre Bicchieri - there are probably another 10 or 20 that are just as good if not better, but they didn't do all the things you need to do to get the scores (like make 100,000 bottles) - or even get tasted. Maybe it is just the real world (it is a business and not just about making wine), but I think as fields like criticism are leveled by the web - by sites like this, wine blogs, etc. - that the monolithic resources like WS, etc. will become less and less relevant. </rant>



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