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- Biodynamic wines, is there any science in this?
I´ve read a lot lately on biodynamic wines and how the position of the moon and other things can affect the vines growth or even the wine tasting, mostly on phylosophical grounds believing that "Biodynamics takes organic farming practices and wraps them as broader conception of the farm / the vineyard as a coherent organism, where inputs and outputs of resources work in harmony. It's a stark contrast to the industrial, agro-chemical model--first sterilize the land, then pump it full of petroleum derivatives."
My question is, has any of this been proved yet? Sources? Have you tasted their wines? Prices? Recommendations?
I hope to hear from you all!
Seeya!
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286 - Reply by adamlevin, May 1.
There's a brief explanation of its real world applications in the Domaine Leflaive - http://www.snooth.com/wines/domaine+leflaive/ - writeup on W&S - http://www.wineandspiritsmagazine.com/pages/f&F/030309_Leflaive.html
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- Reply by Hugo Sauaia, May 2.
Thank you very much adam. I realize domaine le flaive´s phylosophy has a lot to do with conditions of the soil, what seems indeedly more feet to the earth to me. However, I´d be amused to have more specific information on techniques. I mean, all I hear about is somebody saying that byodinamics is being used, but how? I don´t wanna sound to skeptical on this matter, I have more recently learned to believe that between the sky and the earth there are many more mysteries than we can possibly think of, but I need some data. I´ll start tasting more of these wines to try to understand it in the mouth...but so far I feel it´s all kindda above the clouds of reality. Hope to hear from you soon.
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19 - Reply by PortfolioWines, May 3.
As a wine importer of many years, I have been following the Biodynamic technique over the last 8 years and definitely see the positive impact it has on the overall vitality of the vine, even in bad vintages. I also admire the producers who have passionately implemented this technique, which is labor intensive and often subject to ridicule.
A very good example of Biodynamic approach that have paid off well is Montirius in the Rhone. Already blessed with a superb terroir and climate, the wines are made in accordance to the principles of biodynamic viticulture, and having tasted the wines, I can safely say that the combination of all these elements have produced some of the most consistently impressive wines in the region. There are others who have done well and have proven it with their excellent wines.
Having said that, I am still not really convinced that it is the only viable alternative to maintaining a healthy vineyard without any harmful effects on the environment. Furthermore, wine quality is pretty much dependent on having the right varietals, excellent terroir, sound viticulture and a good winemaker. Biodynamic approach cannot turn a toad into a prince - it just allows the toad to live in a cleaner/healthier ecosystem, with less warts - but it is still a toad. Forgive my tongue in cheek reply.
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1143 - Reply by dmcker, May 3.
Can anyone provide specifics about just what biodynamic agricultural techniques are utilized in these vineyards?
For those wondering just what biodynamics is/are, here's a starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture
So what are we talking about in the vineyard context besides composting and alternative pesticidal techniques? Where does 'anthroposophy' enter in??
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45 - Reply by danpetroski, May 13.
For a more humorous take on Biodynamic wine, check out a post I wrote over a year ago:
http://www.spaghettiwesterner.com/biodynamic.html
Enjoy....
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- Reply by dmcker, May 13.
Very eruditely posited, Dan. Can't say I still really have much a clue about what biodynamic grapegrowing/winemaking is in everyday real terms, though...
Is it all an ancestral memory reemerging of ancient Bacchanalian rites on the vineyard-covered hillsides? ;-)
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01 - Reply by T Andrew Windsor, May 14.
The concept of biodyamics and it's application to viticulutre and wine production is very complex and because there are far too many variables involved (many of them not controllable) it is essentially impossible to prove or disprove it's contributions to wine quality. When writing a paper for my MSc in Oenology, there were actually very few journals on the topic. Those that existed were typically poor and too abstract, and did not follow through to the end result....the wine quality. Sounds like a cop out but, unfortunately nature is too complex in many regards to fully understand.
As for biodynamic wine quality I must say there are many very good producers. That being said, many of these producers were making good wines prior to their venture into biodynamics and therefore it's difficult to discern what attributes are directly related to biodyamics specifically. All you need to do is look at the majority of the top houses in France and you will find biodynamic wines.
Everyone has their own interpretations to biodynamic applications which makes sense as they were originally prepared for European climates, soils, and wild life, which has little relevance in other winemaking regions of the world.
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03 - Reply by pmr, May 15.
Hi I'm the winemaker from dominio IV winery in Oregon.
We've farmed our vineyard in a BD fashion since 2001 and make wines from BD grapes. I did a Masters in vineyards soils and wines at UC Davis (thesis on terroir) and worked for some great producers. We were raised under the pretty heavy hand of large scale farming and analytical techniques at Davis, so it has been a lot of unwinding to try to understand BD.
There are many circles of chasing one's own tail in the BD and science debate, but for me it has been mostly about honing my skills at perceiving the natural world and my wines. I think about BD as another way to look at the ecosystem, the vines, and the wines. I still use a lot of analytical methods that help me to inform my decisions; sometimes science informs a BD practice. For example, our soils have a lot of K in the soils, so we will tweak our BD compost to help manage this abundance of potassium.
There is a great book by Lily Kolisko "Agriculture for tomorrow" that painfully details her years of trails with BD planting methods. It is from 1932 and is out of print (last pub 1978).
Thanks,
Patrick,
if you'd like to reach me, holler at 503.474.8636
http://www.dominiowines.com
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- Reply by dmcker, May 15.
Thanks for the example about potassium balancing, Patrick. Can you relate any other procedures and practices that will inform our view of what a biodynamic orientation means in every day grape growing/wine making?
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03 - Reply by pmr, May 15.
One really dramatic example of practical procedures and practices in the vineyard relates to the spray 501 (silica). 501 is sprayed on the leaves to bring in heat. Yes heat. This was really hard for me get my mind around until I saw a vineyard sprayed with 501 to prevent frost. Every other row was sprayed the day before an expected frost. The next morning I saw a striped vineyard, frost in the unsprayed rows and none in the sprayed rows. I had to reevaluate my assumptions after this.
This spring has seen a slow start to bud break because of cold temps and rain. We may use 501 to help us "bring in more heat" during the summer so our grapes achieve the proper level of maturity.
Hope that helps!
