Wine Talk

Snooth User: mcglameryx3

Best wine ever?

Posted by mcglameryx3, Jun 24, 2009.

If you could choose one bottle of wine to drink, regardless of price, what would it be?

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Replies

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Reply by dmcker, Jun 24, 2009.

Depends on mood, bodily condition, time of year, environment and many other factors. No single best, no way, no how. Hell, I'd have trouble naming the two-cases worth of single bottles I'd want to have on a desert isle.

But if you insist, the '59 La Mission Haut Brion *may* be the best I've had, over a tasting cycle between 1988 and 2008.

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Reply by gregt, Jun 24, 2009.

Today, on my deathbed, on a summer night, on a winter night, after a dinner, with a dinner? As dmcker says, there are to many variables.

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Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Jun 25, 2009.

The last bottle I really enjoyed will do it for me. Of course since that was a 78 Monfortino it might just do it.

Having said that the best bottle of wine I have ever had was a 1958 Monfortino and the one bottle that I would like to drink that has eluded me so far would be the Inglenook, BV Private Reserve or Charles Krug from the same vintage.

But for a night like tonight, not actually tonight since I am under the weather, but a night like tonight most likel a Mulderbosch Sauvignon Blanc would do the trick!

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Reply by mcglameryx3, Oct 4, 2009.

There's been a lot of attention on the first growth wines such as Mouton Rothschild. Is the hype warranted as well as the price some of these wines fetch?

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Reply by gregt, Oct 4, 2009.

How can anyone answer that? There's been attention on first growths since before they were even created. Do you like first growth Bordeaux? Enough to buy them?

Cost and quality are not correlated and cost and personal preference are even less correlated, or at least should be.

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Reply by Gregory Dal Piaz, Oct 5, 2009.

I can answer that.

NO

Mouton in particular - NO. It's has not performed consistantly enough to warrant it's lofty price.

I used to buy some first growths. Keep in mind that when the 2000's were soaring on the futures market the 1999's were being discounted on retailers shelves. I picked up several bottle of Lafite, Latour and Margaux for under $100 each.

I know many people who will say that was foolish since those wines don't represent the heights to which those wines can reach and therefore are too pedestrian to warrant even the $100 tariff.

Whatever. They still reflect the style of the Chateau. I think there are so many wines that offer better value. for me, that I don't even think about buying first growths anymore. In fact I really don't even buy Bordeaux anymore since i drink very little of it and when I do drink it I want something mature, looking forward to a few 1983's i just pulled from the cellar.

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Reply by happyrobot, Oct 5, 2009.

I'll place my vote for an early 1970's Château d’Yquem we had at a dinner a few years ago :)

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Reply by Muchkabouche, Oct 8, 2009.

Has anyone here actually had a bottle from Screaming Eagle or Opus One? I hear a lot about these cult wines being the best in the world. Much depends on the individual palate, whether or not you really love it. Any personal experience with either of these wines?

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Reply by cigarman168, Oct 8, 2009.

I will go for most expensive one DRC. If I can pick up more will choose first growth wines with RP ratings 100.

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Reply by dmcker, Oct 8, 2009.

Muchkabouche, have had a couple of bottles of Screaming Eagle, and nearly 100 bottles of Opus One over the years. Neither is the best in the world, in my estimation, though both can be very good wines. I imagine SE afficionados are cringing at being included with O1... ;-)

Cigarman, do you mean any DRC? Even an Echézeaux or Grands Echézeaux? If so, I'll have to say that there are dozens of other pinot noirs out there as good or better. If just Romanee Conti, or perhaps La Tache, then perhaps just a very few, but it depends on the vintage and other factors I and others mention above regarding time of year, bodily condition, etc., etc. since this is such a subjective matter.

You are obviously talking about 'the best' as reflected by the wine marketplace over the past century or so. But do you think that market forces always showcase ultimate quality, whether for shoes or automobiles or anything else? I have had several RP 100s and high 90s from Bordeaux (and not all are first growths, such as La Mission Haut Brion in Graves), as well as all the DRCs, from multiple vintages, and while I respect them for what they are, am in several cases sure they aren't the absolute best at any given time of what's available even in places like Japan or China. Those ratings, and the brandname cachet of a DRC or whoever else, are for the most part for people with limited knowledge of what else is out there....

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Reply by ChipDWood, Oct 8, 2009.

Two for this category: One that I've had, one that I LONG to have.

The first, that I've actually tried and was instantly blown away by, was the 1997 Dalla Valle, "Maya".

http://www.snooth.com/wine/dalla-va...

I had it NEXT to the 1997 Phelps Insignia, so that's sayin' something too. BEAUTIFUL.

The wine I would MOST like to TRY? 1989 Chateau Haut-Brion. I've heard the word magical used to describe it, over and over again.

Have yet to try it.

But.... SOMEDAY man...

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Reply by ChipDWood, Oct 8, 2009.

Re: GDP & First Growths...

Funny enough, while I was at Morrell I was fascinated to see that the OFF vintages, due to the nature of the Bordeaux "market" were the ones to vanish first. IE: Drunk up, while everyone seemed to hold onto & save their 90's, '95s, 2000's, blabla.

Which, according to any market driven system, made them the rarer commodity, sometimes putting them in line (but only in rare instances) to sell at pace (especially in the sense of completing veritcals & the likes) of the best vintages.

...I'd still like to try the '89 Haut-Brion, should you have one handy. I'll bring along a '97 Lakoya, and we'll call it a draw ;).

Chip

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Reply by Eric Guido, Oct 8, 2009.

For me it was a 1995 Quintarelli Amarone. I still have a riserva bottle that I plan to open many years from now.

As for young Barolo that blew my mind, 2001 Granbussia from Aldo Conterno and 1996 Vietti Rocche.

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Reply by cigarman168, Oct 8, 2009.

@ dmcker , I totally agree with your points as I have taste some first growth wines, of course Vintage not 100 marks rating. But I can say some wines of cheaper prices is of more impressed to me.

As it is an assumption question, so I just choose based on money value (haha, some kind of vain to get it, Right?) So, cost may not totally reflect the quality of the products, much cost are go for the goodwill and brandname cachet...

This remind me a story I heard some years ago that around 10-12 guys pay for a bill for a dinner at around USD80,000. Those people of course order some expensive dishes ie sharp fins, abalone, bird nest... and some expensive old year traditional Chinese white wines, but they figure out the bill should not more than USD20,000, and they ask the boss of the restaurants about the extra high price, and the restautants owner said that , since you have mentioned to have most expensive fishes recipe in the restaurants, so we cooked all our Cyprinus carpio (expensive golden fish actually only for appreciation) and so come out this bill value...

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Reply by dmcker, Oct 9, 2009.

Cigarman, I've had carp, deep fried whole then smothered in a sweet and sour sauce, Chinese-style, and also sliced raw (koi no arai), Japanese-style with a sweet miso dipping sauce, on several occasions, and though both dishes can be quite tasty, I don't think they warrant a US$60,000 markup! Just think of the DRC wines, even at Hong Kong auction prices, you could buy with the differential. Think those golden carp should've been kept in the pond, and not made their way to the cutting boards. ;-(

Good example, though, of how pricing at the highest levels is sometimes arbitrary. So often people *want* to be charged a ridiculous amount of money just so they can feel special for paying it...

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Reply by WineForNewbies2, Nov 29, 2009.

I've had a bottle of the 1995 Opus One. (I have one more '95, a '99 and a '00 in the cellar). I thoroughly enjoyed it, but would I call it the best wine ever? Probably not. In fact, I don't know what I would describe as the best wine I've ever had. I've had a bottle of '00 Cristal, which was pretty good (worth the price tag? no, not to me), and I've had the '96 and '98 Dom Perignons that I enjoyed. I also liked the 1999 Margaux (bought a half-bottle of it for $80, figuring it might be my only opportunity to buy Margaux).

There's no doubt that all of these were great wines, but were they "better" than a recent Ponzi Pinot Noir that I also enjoyed greatly or La Sirena Moscato Azul? I don't think so. It's hard to objectively quantify these things. I'll look for wines with better taste-per-dollar ratios. In the meantime, I'll keep looking for that "one wine" that blows my mind. The reward is in the search, not the final discovery!

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Reply by gregt, Nov 29, 2009.

Except that I don' think Opus One is on anyone's list of the greatest California wines. It became famous because it was a joint venture between Mondavi and Rothchild and at the time, was seen to signify that even the French found CA potentially able to make wines worthy of respect. In terms of the overall hierarchy of CA wines, it's kind of like the most expensive and nicest item at JC Penny - nice enough, but not in the same shopping mall as Tiffany.

I've had it plenty of times and always found it to be overrated. But since it was the first "premium" wine that many Americans were aware of, it's got a residual cachet. There is much better wine made in CA.

Wines like Harlan, Bryant, Screaming Eagle, Araujo, Peter Michael are quite different. They're actually a lot better. But on the other hand, while always good, I've never found any of those worth the tarriffs either.

Funny to mention the Ponzi PN. I had the 2006 for Thanksgiving a few days ago. Nice wine for sure but ultimately, forgettable too. Completely overshadowed by the other wines, including a Merry Edwards 2005 Sauvignon Blanc that was pretty wonderful.

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Reply by dmcker, Nov 29, 2009.

Greg, I thought you didn't like SBs? What changed? ;-)

Ditto your comments vis a vis the Opus One. I've literally had hundreds of them since1990, from vintages going back to the beginning of the '80s. A couple of friends of mine in the restaurant business used to always have a case on top of the fridge in their apartment. Every time I visited them... (the whole case would go in a flash when they'd forgotten to pull the case down and put it away before parties, of course). Generally good wine, sometimes very good, but not the most special, at all. On average, and for most vintages, I've liked it better than the Mondavi Reserve, but that's not always even the case. On the whole I've enjoyed Caymus Special Selection more, and definitely Phelp's Insignia, looking at that generation of 'cult' wines. Not so sure about Dominus. Ridge Montebello has also given me more pleasure over the years. And many of these have been worth their price, IMO. Though, come to think of it, Opus One has been great for gifts out of my cellar when I thought someone would appreciate it....

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Reply by oliversocial25, Nov 29, 2009.

really? nice article!

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Reply by yukitest, Nov 30, 2009.

Wines like Harlan, Bryant, Screaming Eagle, Araujo, Peter Michael are quite different. They're actually a lot better. But on the other hand, while always good, I've never found any of those worth the tarriffs either.

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