Oak chips

• November 2009

  I'd love to see a compare and contrast type series on aging in oak v stainless ... steel or stainless w/ oak chips. Also a compare and contrast of small winery v big winery techniques

  Forum post in the topic Wine 101: Requests by Jimmy Cocktail

  
  

• September 2009

  I hear you, Greg, about the need for editability to the posts, at least within a certain length of time after they go up, and before anyone answers them. Weren't we going to do a thread about all the differences between the various types of American, French and other oak, how the... Read moreI hear you, Greg, about the need for editability to the posts, at least within a certain length of time after they go up, and before anyone answers them. Weren't we going to do a thread about all the differences between the various types of American, French and other oak, how the barriques are built, how the winemaker chooses and rotates the barrels, comparison to any other woods (apparently the ancient Mesopotamians used palm wood, though if you've ever cut down a palm tree and tried to do anything with the wood you know how hard it is to work), as well as stainless steel, cement, etc., not to mention, heaven forbid, use of oaks chips instead, etc., etc., etc.? So shall this be that thread?    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic Oak vs. tanks by dmcker

  
  

• July 2009

  Yeah I wasn't sure about the original question. I don't think that the winery ... would trumpet their use of oak chips. Although that would be kind of interesting - "we use only the freshest chips!" One day I want to make a wine using only water, powdered tannins, MegaPurple, oak... Read moreYeah I wasn't sure about the original question. I don't think that the winery ... would trumpet their use of oak chips. Although that would be kind of interesting - "we use only the freshest chips!" One day I want to make a wine using only water, powdered tannins, MegaPurple, oak chips, and flavorings but no actual grapes. I wonder how close we could get to something that resembled real wine    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic how much wood, would a . . . by GregT

  
  

• July 2009

  I don't know the wine so can't say exactly what they meant, but the phraseology ... doesn't mean that the use of oak chips is bad. But they're used simply to add flavor. The original purpose of oak was not to add flavor, which was a byproduct of barrel storage. And using chips... Read moreI don't know the wine so can't say exactly what they meant, but the phraseology ... doesn't mean that the use of oak chips is bad. But they're used simply to add flavor. The original purpose of oak was not to add flavor, which was a byproduct of barrel storage. And using chips doesn't give you the benefit of barrel aging    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic how much wood, would a . . . by GregT

  
  

• July 2009

  You’ve heard it before I’m sure. Anything but Chardonnay, and I mean ... gel (or residual sugar and oak chips) in a desperate attempt to hide what it was while it searched for what it may become. We are witnessing, if we choose to taste with an open mind, the emergence from... Read more You’ve heard it before I’m sure. Anything but Chardonnay, and I mean ... gel (or residual sugar and oak chips) in a desperate attempt to hide what it was while it searched for what it may become. We are witnessing, if we choose to taste with an open mind, the emergence from it’s cocoon of a beautiful new Chardonnay. One capable of being big, bold and buttery on the one hand while remaining cool crisp and composed on the other. Wine is an art, winemakers are the artists, growers create the paints and history has prepared the canvasses. The question cannot be simply do you like the results. One must first answer the question: Is this the best that could have been done with the raw materials? That is where we are. We have some of the finest artists working with brilliant raw materials. Join the ABcC Club and experience what Chardonnay can be in its range of expressions, then decide if one is right for you. Perhaps, in the end, you will not find one that is right for you. That is as valid a conclusion as any that can be drawn, but making that conclusion on old experiences, or worse on not much more than a fad or fancy is simply, well, it’s simply stupid. Anyway, onto the tasting and our notes! Flight 1 - Better Budget Wines Good Daughter CA 2007 13.5%                    $14.00 Has some nuanced smoky oak tones light a light lemon curd and cut nectarine fruit tones. In the mouth this is a touch sweet and round with a fleshy, friendly feel. A bit soft but shows a sense of restraint as well. 85pts Both Cheryl and Evan found this to be a bit grassy though Didi and Paul both found nice citrus tones on the palate. Michael David Vineyards 7 Heavenly Lodi 2006  14.5%        $15.00 A fairly raw woody nose is a touch blunt. There is good acidity here but the wine needs it to balance out the sweetness. A bit of Fruit Stripes gum, artificial banana flavor on the round palate that turns a bit spicy with a bitter, pithy edge to it on the angular finish. 83pts Eddie thought this was "over the top" and Cheryl and Paul both found this to be typically oaky and indistinctly fruity. Toasted Head Russian River Valley 2006 13.5%             $14.00 Not particularly aromatic with integrated spice tones and hints of floral, pear, and pineapple. In the mouth this is smooth and balanced with a touch of mineral cut and a dry leanness across the mid-palate that keeps the subtle fruit and spices tones in harmony. This finishes with a hint of refreshing minerality. 86pts Several people commented on the stinky aspect of this with Didi noting that it was sulfury and Evan added that the buttery. apple flavors grew on him. Flight 2 -  Cooler Climates, than Napa at least. Kunde Estate Sonoma Valley 2007 13.8%                $18.00 Earthy and slightly minerally on the nose with dried apple, pineapple and dried floral tones that have a sage like edge. In the mouth this is focused with a big acid spine that keeps this fresh and juicy but not weighty. The flavors are a touch soft and subtle but recall nectarines and apples in a creamy, creamsicle style that grows on the long finish which has a delightfully sneaky return of sweet orchard fruits. Eminently drinkable 91pts Everyone enjoyed this wine though Paul wanted to see more acidity  and Didi noted a "chemical" scent the consensus was that this was something to go out buy and share with friends. Stuhlmuller SV Estate Alexander Valley 2007 14.2%        $22.00 A lovely nose with nuanced honey, toasted wood, nutmeat, yellow flowers and dusty earth tone. In the mouth the texture is just fantastic, bright and balanced with intense yet tense and focused mandarin orange, apricot and fig notes that are framed with just a hint of almond and measured oak notes. The finish is fruity, clean and crisp with refreshing acids and a delicacy to the flavors that makes this a winner for geek and novice alike. 93pts Cheryl liked the "oily texture" of this wine and both Paul and Evan commented on the " caramel and hazelnut" oak tones. Didi found it "tinny and metallic". Bouchaine Carneros 2006 13.9%                    $20.00 This is laden with sweet fruit aromas but has a raw wood note that adds an acrid edge. In the mouth this is very fruit driven with a hint of wood derived honeyed sweetness up front that yields to a chemical vanilla tone on the diffuse mid-palate. This does gain a little bit of creamy intensity on the backend and has good length but the finish feels a little stripped and spoofed. 85pts Eddie went back and forth on this one, finding that the wine alternated between " a bit skunky" and "exotic fruit".  Cheryl and Evan both noted off aromas but then went on to say that they enjoyed both the texture and the flavors of the wine. Flight 3 - Napa Valley Duck Shack Napa Valley 2007 14.2%                 $24.00 A touch of vanilla on the nose but this is driven by lime, apricot, and pineapple fruit tones that seem fresh and bright. Zesty acid on entry is followed by cool, crisp flavors of green fruits, pineapple and peach with creamy vanilla undertones and light wood spice notes. The texture is lovely and shows excellent integration. This is refreshing yet doesn’t lack power or richness and finishes with an absolute flourish of lime, starfruit, and peach fruit salad notes with even a hint of blueberry. Delicious 92pts Nearly everyone loved this wine, though Didi felt the palate was a let down after the nose. Paul notes that this was a "big lemon bomb" and Cheryl added it"like Goldilocks, just right!" LaTour Mt. Veeder 2006 14.5%                    $25.00 Very oaky on the nose with buttery, nutty, vanilla candy notes that almost become tarry in the glass. Big and soft with lots of flavor but not much focus. This is not fruit driven and while made and in a way Burgundian, with a touch of rocky minerality on the mid-palate, seems a bit to aggressive and lacks a sense of elegance. In it’s own way it is intriguing with a smoky, hazelnut scented finish that has a certain allure but this is not for everyone. Given time I can see this emerging into something distinct and enjoyable.88pts Both Eddie and Evan found a lot of oak on the nose here with "coconut oil" and "strong toast flavors".  Paul found the nose to be "the most complex so far with orange blossoms, fig and fresh cream then oak, oak, oak on the palate." Frank Family Napa Valley 2007 14.4%                $28.00 This has a nice dominated by spicy French oak with dried apple fruit and a bit of lemon oil. In the mouth this is very bright up front with big citrus tones that yield to a rich, viscous, powerfully built mid-palate full of pineapple, peach and apricot tones with plenty of acid backing it up yet it still becomes cloying and sticky on the backend. The finish is also sweet with big, pure notes of cinnamon toast with cream and vanilla. A lot of wine that’s not my style but should find many admirers. 90pts For the most part everyone enjoyed the "rich, oily, full, dense" mouthfeel of this wine but the intensity was off-putting to some as was the "spintry oak that paul found though Didi enjoyed the "caramelized, molasses  flavors." Flight 4 - Up and down the coast Ch St Michelle Caone Ridge Estate WA 14.1%            $20.00 The nose here is subtle and seductive with notes of eggshell, lime leaf, butchers wax, and a wildflower sweetness tat is seductive. A leaner style in the mouth, really taut and focused with intense notes of very fresh orange, peach, pear and papaya fruits that even have a suggestion of red berry. A bit soft on the backend yet with great freshness to the slightly exotic tropical fruit flavors. The finish is a little light with a hint of mineral and hazelnut adding complexity. Very nice stuff 92pts This wine split the crowd with Eddie noting that this was " big, full and seductive, caressing and bold like Naginsky." while Paul felt it was "full of black tea, too simple and no fun." Ojai Solomon Hills CA 2007   14.0%                $30.00 This smells very hard yet has intense and pure chardonnay fruit with background notes of saffron, honeycomb, and forest floor. Very bright and full of malic acid in the mouth that supports the intense lemon, peach and grapefruit oil fruits in the mouth. The huge acidity keeps this large scaled wine remarkably focused and highlights the wonderful purity of the fruit. The finish is snappy and as refreshing as can be with a gentle almond tone and a hint of toasted coconut. This retains a tightly coiled feeling and I expect this might get even better in the cellar. Not for everyone but a brilliant style of Chardonnay. 92pts This was not liked by the group. Paul though it was simply "bad" and Didi felt it had a "strong, bitter, pungent taste." With time some of the group fund more to like though with Cheryl noting that " it did a 180 going from dirty and funky to clean and and pleasant with a bite." Eddie added, "this was probelmatic but ended up tieing for my number 2." Stoller Estate Dundee Hills OR 2006 14.1%                $31.00 This smells heavy like white chocolate pudding with lots of caramel notes from the wood and not much fruit. In the mouth this is lush and chewy yet feels a bit to fat with good fruit but not much follow through and finishes with over-ripe tropical fruits and movie theatre popcorn. 86pts The oak on this wine was noted by all with most tasters finding it to be, as Evan put it, "creamy and spicy." Paul liked it's "creamy white raisin and mango" flavors while Cheryl found it to be "  astringent and oaky" but still enjoyed the caramel and fruit flavors. Well that was it. I was actually very surprised by how much I enjoyed several of these. It's been too long since i took a look at West Coast Chardonnay and I am glad I took the time to give these a test drive. I found a few for my summertime drinking. How about you? Ready to join us in the ABcC club? Gregory Dal Piaz Community Manager Snooth    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic Join the ABcC Club! by Gregory Dal Piaz

  
  

• May 2009

  Doing your homework is the only real way to find out. Most white wines do not ... augment their wines with oak chips, staves or other alternatives so homework is the only sure bet again. Hope that helps

  Forum post in the topic Need help with oak... by corskier

  
  

• December 2008

  It’s not every Tuesday afternoon that I tuck into a line-up of Australian Shiraz. Heck the truth is it’s not every year that I take a serious look at what’s happening with Australian Shiraz. The truth is the wines were never my style even though I recognize the quality that... Read moreIt’s not every Tuesday afternoon that I tuck into a line-up of Australian Shiraz. Heck the truth is it’s not every year that I take a serious look at what’s happening with Australian Shiraz. The truth is the wines were never my style even though I recognize the quality that many of these wines offer in their particular niche. That’s not to say that I don’t occasionally enjoy a bottle of Aussie Shiraz, in a peculiar way Shiraz/Syrah competes for my attention as both the greatest wine value and a great wine, period. I don’t know exactly what it is that makes even inexpensive Syrah relatively complete and complex but the adaptability of the grape and the diversity of styles of wine one finds allows for comparison to be made across virtually every parameter by which we can classify wine. New world, old world, cold climate, warm climate, unoaked, 200% new oak. Obviously it makes for some very interesting comparisons! With Australia, and in particular this line-up of value priced offerings, we are pretty much looking exclusively at warm climate wines and while many wines shows signs of fruit bombiness the price point helps ameliorate some of the worst excesses that that genre encompasses. It’s tough, but not impossible, to get $12 wines that are oaked to depth or have fruit weights approaching that of Atlantic City salt-water taffy. There are saving graces to be constricted by price. As a group the wines showed very well, offering lots of fruit, good balance, and well thought out styles. In these difficult financial times it’s worth revisiting Aussie Shiraz for the value they offer. While many of these wines lack some of the detail and finesse many appreciate with Syrah they offer a rather full throttled exuberance at very affordable prices, which makes them perfect for parties, family and friends. To those who really like the style of these wines this  sampling represents a small snapshot of just how much these wines can offer at $12. Some of the standouts were really great wines and should be tracked down. The Zonte’s footsteps Shiraz-Viognier offered excellent aromatic complexity in a slight lighter, more elegant and earthy style that may not be quintessential Aussie Shiraz but was delicious. The d’Arenberg Footbolt on the other hand was excellent, and reaffirmed why it has been one of my go to bottlings with Shiraz. Rich, layered, and long it offered an array of Shiraz notes and is absolutely singing right now. It is a steal at the price! The Players Leo - Retail wine professional Mike - Wine enthusiast Michel  - Wholesale wine professional Kyle - Wine enthusiast Zach - Wine enthusiast Darren - Wine enthusiast Jeff - Restaurant professional The wines Flight 1 1)    2005 Innocent Bystander Shiraz-Viognier 14.5% - $14 We started the blind tasting with a wine that seemed to get a little lost in the mix. Both Michel and Kyle were a bit neutral on the wine and noted that it had a certain vegetal quality. Darren and Mike “didn’t dislike it” which while not exactly complimentary represented the neutral feelings once again though Mike added, “ it has good balance and texture.”  Leo was the wine’s biggest fan, echoing Mike’s comment on the wines feel commenting that “ while the dark spice wasn’t pronounced it was nice and the wine was round and had a fun feel. A bit disjointed. This also seemed a bit advanced; perhaps the screw top did not hold a perfect seal. 2)    2007 Sonoma Vineyards Syrah 13.8% - $14 This Sonoma bottling was our first ringer and it was universally well received though e few people commented on the wines sweetness. Michel felt it was “ relatively well integrated in a very soft way and a little obviously sweet.” Kyle also noticed the sugar adding “ it’s a touch sweet and simplistic, it’s good though I would call this an extended family party wine!” Jeff also felt this was a “quaffing wine” and noticed the “berried nose with a touch of olive” a bouquet that Darren notes as “ a distinct Syrah nose. Solid, pure juicy fun. 3)    2007 Zonte’s Footsteps Shiraz-Viognier 14.5% - $14 Mike caught “a little funk on the nose” with this wine and felt it was “intense and unyielding in a brooding style.” Zach also commented on the weight of this wine noting “ It’s very fruity and very ripe, a much bigger wine, nice finish with a touch of hoisin spice.”  Jeff found this “interesting on the nose, there’s a lot going on, it’s got really good texture and mouthfeel.”  Leo liked the ‘ succulent palate” as well and caught “ a bit of iron and earth on the finish.” Kudos to Darren for guessing that there was a bit of Viognier in this blend! A complex, elegant wine. Flight 2 4)    2006 Hyland Penley Estate Coonawarra Shiraz15% - $20 This wine had divergent opinions about the nose and palate. Most of the tasters found the nose interesting as comments ranged from Michel’s “ leafy and weedy notes, dusty fruits and a little brett” to Zach’s mild licorice and gingerbread cookie to Leo’s feeling that this had “ a solid nose full of dried fruit notes. The palate however didn’t impress anyone. Mike called it “simple dark fruits and oak” while Darren felt it was “too sweet and loose, there’s not much to like.” Perhaps a bit blocky but this opened well. 5)    2004 Leeuwin Estate Siblings Margaret River Shiraz 14% - $20 While the Penley Estate promised more than it delivered this Leeuwin estate seemed to deliver more than it promised. Michel was “disappointed with the nose, the oak overwhelmed the fruit” while Darren though this was “sweeter on the nose and both he and Mike found a bit of tar on the nose. When comments switched to the palate however things really took off. Leo enjoyed the “ vanilla and Lipton notes on the palates big fruit. I really enjoyed that”.  Zach noted the “ big, sweet fruits, simple but enjoyable with a bit of a sour edge.” Jeff also noted that the wine “ has high acid but the fruit really backed it up. A succulent, juicy wine. 6)    2004 Kunde Estate Sonoma Valley Syrah 14.1% - $20 This was a ringer and a bit pricier than most of the wines in today’s lineup.  Mike was immediately convinced that this was from California and even called it as Sonoma! Kudos to Mike who felt this was “ medium bodied, elegant but big, really well done.” Michel found a lot of complexity on the nose with its “ Asian spice, dark fruit nutty notes and maybe a touch of brett.” Kyle also caught “a bit of funk on the nose, which I didn’t like. I thought I wasn’t going to like this but I liked the palate a lot, it was substantial and interesting and it’s the only wine I am curious about going forward. I would cellar a bottle for a year or two.”  Zach noted that this “ evolved in the glass, it’s interesting, smooth but the finish seems very short.” A powerful balanced wine with a lot to say. Flight 3 7)    2006 d’Arenberg The Stump Jump GSM 14.5% - $9 This, our least expensive bottling today, was surprisingly well received. Mike liked the aromatics calling them “floral and fragrant” while Michel noted that the fruit was “ very high toned purple fruit with a bit of VA and tar, the alcohol seems high too.” Darren also commented on the high alcohol on the nose but still found “ good fruit with a herbaceous note.”  Michel enjoyed the palate calling it “short, fat and plummy” Mike thought it was “soft and pure red fruits with good balance. Leo enjoyed the “ silky, soft texture, delicate and really enjoyable.” It was a crowd pleaser. 8)    2005 d’Arenberg d’Arry’s Original Shiraz-Grenache 14.5% - $15 This had a nose that was off putting to most of the tasters who called it “chemical” “abrasive” “antiseptic” There was also a salty quality that Kyle referred to as “chemical salt and vinegar potato chips” while Zach captured it as “ berries dipped in the ocean”.  Darren did note that the nose was “sweet and has notes of aged balsamic” while Jeff thought the wine was “ just a big sweet adolescent” Perhaps that is the best way to describe this wine. 9)    2006 Kilikanoon Killerman’s Run Shiraz-Grenache 14.5% - $17 We returned to form with this wine. Michel commented, “ the nose changed a lot offering up BarBQ sauce, leaves, soft mushrooms.” Leo caught some “spicy oak and a leafy green thing going on but then it turned to pure strawberry with some burnt marshmallow.” Mike found this to have “ great texture, nice red fruits, really a lot going on in the mouth” and both Kyle and Jeff found the wine to improve in the glass offering “good fruit”. A solid wine with some sneaky complexity. Flight 4 10)     2006 d’Arenberg The Footbolt Shiraz McLaren Vale 14.5% - $15 This was the wine of the day with universal praise. Darren started us off liking the nose with its “ good spectrum from heat to spice to fruit to floral” and Jeff picked that thought up adding “ it’s quintessential Shiraz, cocoa, vanilla oak, big but balanced fruit.”  Leo caught some “plum, coffee and violets” on the nose and thought the wine was “ silky, fantastic, only complaint would be a wish it had a little more tannin.” Both Mike and Michel found a bit of cassis in the mix and Zach found a little note of “ stem of a rose”. Kyle enjoyed the “dark black berry fruit,” and though this was “ a little young but it’s nice, it has everything in balance.” A great example of its type and a compelling value. 11)     2006 Kilikanoon Killerman’s Run Shiraz South Australia 14.5% - $20 After the intensity of the Footbolt this may have been lost a bit. Leo enjoyed this for it’ brawny chocolate, beef jerky and tomato sauce thing on the nose, I like the complexity here but it is a little more extreme.” Kyle also picked up a note of “stewed tomato” and liked the complexity of the wine. Mike was less impressed noting, “it’s not as structured, long or elegant as the last wine.” Another solid wine. 12)     2006 Four Vines Killer Canyon Paso Robles Syrah 14.8% - $35 This last ringer really jacked the price up and was met with a lot of interest. Mike immediately notes, “ This is something totally different.” Jeff enjoyed the “ very jammy, cocoa and coffee scents” on the nose but though the wine “lacked complexity and acidity in the mouth.”  Zach felt the nose “ was really hot” and while it was “ too sweet on the palate there are some nice jammy plums with a nice touch of salinity and a little licorice.” Darren caught some “ rubber, cinnamon, and Robitusson, in a good way” on the nose and called the wine “ savage and masculine. It’s a beast, big and bold.” And it was a big bold way to end our tasting. Intense full throttle Syrah. Gregory Dal Piaz is the Community Manager at  Snooth, an avid Wine Geek with a passion for things Italian, and a long suffering Mets fan.    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic Snooth Bilnd tasting Panel -... by Gregory Dal Piaz

  
  

• July 2008

  To respond with something from the book, Feiring was talking to one of the ... when in fact there were oak chips tea-bagged into the fermenters. You can't put everything on the label, but a strict standard for earning the USDA "Organic" or "Natural" label would allow the luddites... Read moreTo respond with something from the book, Feiring was talking to one of the ... when in fact there were oak chips tea-bagged into the fermenters. You can't put everything on the label, but a strict standard for earning the USDA "Organic" or "Natural" label would allow the luddites to have their natural wine that they adore, and I'm sure they're willing to pay a good premium. In fact, there are some natural winemakers who manage to pull it off and produce good wines at low cost.    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic Robert Parker Goes Under the... by ccarpita

  
  

• June 2008

  Beware of the "native yeast" propaganda my friends. There are many strains ... -toasting a barrel (or oak chips) to a certain toasting profile to release these or those aromas -adding brandy and or sugar to adjust a sparkling (dosage) -reducing tannins through fining with egg... Read moreBeware of the "native yeast" propaganda my friends. There are many strains ... -toasting a barrel (or oak chips) to a certain toasting profile to release these or those aromas -adding brandy and or sugar to adjust a sparkling (dosage) -reducing tannins through fining with egg whites, gelatin or fish guts -reducing alcohol -big, long etc. ...are all common practices in winemaking. The winemaker chooses which one suits their needs and their philosophical position regarding winemaking. Most of the time, the consumer doesn't know half of what's being done to the wine they drink, and that doesn't change the way they like the wine blind tasted. Ever walked into a kitchen in a restaurnat you wish you hadn't seen? It is a philosophical discussion at heart, the matter being "enhancements". I am taking this to a new post, to not clutter this post about the book. Ooof! Thanks for reading    (hide)

  Forum post in the topic Robert Parker Goes Under the... by hipergas

  
  

prev 1 next