9 Basic Traits of Wine
Use GDP's tasting method to judge any and every wine you sip
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Comments
Przebinda
Tannins have N O T H I N G to do with sweetness.
They do, however, have everything to do with astringency and a lot with texture.
Oct 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Dal Piaz
I'm sure I can find every wine writer referring to sweet tannins, which is what the page refers to. No where do I suggest that tannins contribute sweetness.
Oct 17, 2012 at 2:45 PM
Rossman
I must respectfully disagree with some of your "attributes" of wines. Cabernet Sauvignon has jalapeno flavors? I have been a wine columnist for over 12 years, wine educator and former sommelier and I have NEVER tasted jalapeno in Cab Sauv. And I taste/review hundreds of wines every years. Also, I have never had Cab Franc that tastes of tomato. If anything, it has the green bell pepper (methoxypyrazine) that is common to Cabernet Franc. And, where did you come up with rosemary in Malbec?
Oct 17, 2012 at 3:21 PM
Przebinda
Ummmm.... Yes, you do: "Tannins: sweet, dry"
Just because a bunch of writers do something does not make it true nor does it change the principles of chemistry, physics and physiology.
Wine writing is the only gig where someone can proclaim themselves expert without possessing much factual information.
There is no subjectivity to wine (or any degree of it) - if that would be your next reply. There are only degrees of ignorance and inexperience.
:)
Oct 17, 2012 at 4:48 PM
Dal Piaz
What is this, open night mike at Chuckles?
I'm glad the experts have spoken.
There is no subjectivity to wine? Only if you're in a lab and not using our own senses to analysis it, otherwise that's ALL wine analysis is.
Malbec not herbal, green herbs, you can't find rosemary there? Well you have my sympathies. Ditto for jalpeno in cab, (methoxypyrazine) and tomato in cab franc.
The broader question would be why you can't you find it there, and if you can't why does that mean it doesn't exist.
Here we have the fundamental problem with wine writing and education clearly illustrated.
I owe you both thanks, you've inspired me to write something which I doubt very much you'll agree with.
Oct 17, 2012 at 5:34 PM
Przebinda
No. Not open mike.
Preferences are subjective.
You don't need a lab to make correct assessments just like you don't need an oscilloscope to identify a note, a mode, a color or a shape.
You DO need fact-based experience. Not philosophy.
Oct 17, 2012 at 5:39 PM
Przebinda
As to you plans on your next article: you are advised to do proper research. I will tear shoddy "facts" and incomplete research apart like those grizzles tore apart... oh what was his name?
Oct 17, 2012 at 5:41 PM
Carpita
The Grizzly Man. Thanks for reminding us that the common character of the universe is not harmony, but rather hostility, chaos, and murder.
Oct 17, 2012 at 6:21 PM
h
Research by Tim Hanni and others points to the conclusion that people pick up on nuances of flavor slightly differently - one can taste this, another that, in the same compound. The variation among tasters may be genetic.
Thanks, GDP, for your new way of breaking down the components. Reading about leather or guavas etc. always left me wondering whether a given wine has that edge of tartness I like (acidity), or how strong an impression of sweetness it yields.
The only thing that might make your tasting reports even quicker to grasp would be to use a simple visual graph rather than words for each flavor dimension.
Oct 17, 2012 at 10:46 PM
Przebinda
I know Tim. His 'research' is lacking and dismisses previous findings.
As for this system being new. I don't think so. It's derivative and thus unoriginal. It is too simplistic at some points and contains a number of errors of fact.
Oct 17, 2012 at 10:52 PM
og
Hmmm - don't know about the wines you're drinking, but we often taste alcohol in ours...
<a href="http://www.sedimentblog.com">The Sediment Blog</a>
Oct 18, 2012 at 3:27 AM
Buckland
Everyones tastes differ, as a 'wine connoisseur' said to my wife at a wine tasting, ah I can see Madame is a connoisseur of her own palette, when we we ask to describe the flavors we could taste in wines. So how can one person give the definitive flavor or a wine? Just enjoy.
Oct 18, 2012 at 6:46 AM
I agree Rowland-Buckland. I like to think that I have a very discerning palate but no one persons opinion is the end all be all. GDP is giving his opinion & providing a loose guide, it doesn't mean he is saying all of this is absolutely certain. Use all guides, enjoy wine, & make your own opinion....but don't bash others!
Oct 18, 2012 at 5:04 PM
I'm quite excited to find this 9 Traits article. I've been proposing something like this with my friends as I feel it will help people progress in describing wines so that a reader can tell if he/she would like ti or not.
Please help us with the next step. Informative wine tasting suggestions:
Take two traits A and B: suggest a few widely available wines that are very high in A and low in B and vice versa.
These might not even be good wines as they might be very unbalanced. Actually, tasting bad wines and explaining their problems is a powerful learning exercise.
We did this with acid (used a Valpolicella ) and tannin (Yellow tail shiraz)
It was very informative and we were amazed how much better the wine it was when we mixed them.
Oct 19, 2012 at 1:53 AM
Arthur - you really don't know me, or my research, very well at all. You certainly have little knowledge of the considerable research behind what I do. And as Gregory is finding out the wine community can be a pretty ugly (and admittedly also really wonderful) crowd!
Baconheat: "Research by Tim Hanni and others points to the conclusion that people pick up on nuances of flavor slightly differently - one can taste this, another that, in the same compound. The variation among tasters may be genetic." The perceptive differences between one person and the next can in fact be enormous.
Gregory - love to chat about clarifications and a similar system - and also how to customize notes to fit to people with different sensory sensitivities if you are interested!
Oct 19, 2012 at 3:35 PM
Gregory
Your article was interesting. It acts as a good foundation to build on. Tastes and aromas, in general, will always vary from one individual to another.
Oct 19, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Freak
Wow. I once again stand by GDP as one of the foremost resources, mentors, and wine educators on the net. Greg, please do us all a favor and ignore the ass and continue to focus on enjoyment via the tongue, which not only tastes but expresses, and in your case does so in an honest, honorable and comprehensible manner. I have followed you for years, although not nearly as much lately due to the unstable job market and personal issues, but I still hold you in high regard, right up there with Quilceda Creek, Tablas Creek (and Jason Haas), and Leonetti/Figgins. Keep up the fine work my old friend. Cheers from the Minneapolis area!
Oct 20, 2012 at 7:47 PM
I have to agree with "Q Creek -Freak.
I always enjoy Greg's take on articles such as this one.
Oct 21, 2012 at 8:31 AM
e
Gregory wrote an article for the person who enjoys drinking wine for the delight of the savoring the flavors of the wine itself. That individual just might enjoy learning more about the flavors he finds in the wines if they are pointed out to him. Whether he finds each description helpful or completely absent from his experience is not the objective of the article as I see it. But simply to give a leg up to the common consumer who has not his head stuck up the bee hive counting the honey cells.
Rowland-Buckland, Blackwa and Cerohrs make very good points about the writer and contents. Arthur Z-Przebinda loves to count honey cells and decipher the degree of sweetness in each cell. Jolly good for him because that is probably the way he sees life.
Marlene-Rossman professes to be well versed with wine having been part of the trade in different settings and finds fault after fault with the article. Another person who looks for specific that are indisputable. Another wine writer justifying her existence which is all well and fine as many professions today require that to keep the job alive.
But unlike Arthur Z-Prezebinda and Marlene-Rossman most wine drinkers are far more interested in looking at the Bee Hive from a distance enjoying the honey from a container of sorts. The constant buzzing in the ear and nasty bee stings is not suppose to be part of enjoying honey for most people. For me a very large part of the reason people are not interested in knowing much about wine apart from just drinking it, is the wine snobs insist that their dogma is the bible of how to enjoy wine. More writers like Gregory need to write for the common wine drinker and those that are just discovering wine. Those who feel they have to dictate their point to the public and create a following to their column must do so to earn a living from their sponsors, but they tend to spoil the enjoyment of just simply learning about wine with their constant attempts to prove a point that is correct or incorrect in their minds. They are just thinking in the box far too much for me. So writers are just too self-serving [ Snob Image ] and push potential wine drinkers for discovering wine
Oct 21, 2012 at 12:47 PM
"Just don't box me in"........ who sung that ....
"To Bee or not to Bee"....who said that..... .Well put ......Brugaman ...... Ros..e?
Justify.....Dogma....Rational lies....wine snobs ...fantastic stuff.loved it!
God you plastered all those foolish misinformed lightweights.
Gee they would have to have seen the light by now and changed their wicked ways.
Picking on poor old Greg.
Brugga man....... my new best mate...... love to have a glass with you.
We could fix this world over two magnums of Burgundy easily.....
......but first......how do you like your Rose..dry....sweet..a bit. fruity...from which grape?
Gee I hope you like what I like !
But I'm with you ........
Can we only see things from our own perpectives?
Shouting from my lofty postion.....(after all I need to be heard) that my piont of view is.....correct/right/..superior....
So much energy wasted ..
Is it ego? arrogance? politics?..........or just another thought.
I firmly believe that being alive is good for you.................(shouting now).........
Wine... Food.....even sex.....preferably shared experiences......are all there to be enjoyed by us all. Unless you don't........ Simple stuff.
So there you have it,I know I'm right even when I'm wrong!
Bad choices are part of my journey so I accept my suffering and down that last glass.
Wish you were here.
Can't wait to tell my shink .
Oct 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM
Freak
Cheers, mate! I'm of Irish heritage, and have long said that "I was born with the thirst". Perhaps you as well. Ya pour your soul just as well as yer wine. Thanks for supportin us in the fight for the honor of GDP.
Oct 22, 2012 at 12:15 AM
e
Dear MC Connect,
Thank you for the very interesting judgment. I can see that you took some time in presenting the lines in a fashion that only a fine mind can create. Bravo and may I hold a toast to you.
Q. Creek Freak said it so well “Ya pour your soul just as well as yer wine.”
Gregory is one of those teachers who wants to bring a true way of study to the student. He recognizes the uneducated, pontificating about wine when all they know is the window dressing. Their goal is to immortalize themselves in print and preach from Mt. on high, how all should follow them and their ideas about wine.
Gregory at least tries to give the individual some sense of reality when dealing with grapes, wine and producers. He may be speaking a little above the ability of the new wine drinkers to fully understand or make sense of what he writes but Gregory is giving them sound advise on which to ponder and digest when they reach the age of understanding.
Who does not make an error when discussing wines. Wines are the product of living organisms still [ in most cases of good wine ] changing the character of the wine as it ages. There are no solid road maps to say where a young wine will turn and roam. There are no chemistry formulas or mathematical formulas that will insure accurate predictions of how the wine will taste in the future. This kind of conclusion has to be made of sound judgment coming from experience and confidence. Gregory will be the first to say that his judgment is not perfect but an honest one.
Back in the late 60’s when I entered the trade, there were many articles about young chemists coming into the Napa wine valley to help make better wine. They were to replace the old tradition of nose and smell and taste analysis. Looked what happened! Napa has gone through serious changes and concentrated varietals have become the norm by making jammy wines that tend to fall apart in four to five years. Napa seems to have forgotten the beauty of blending grapes to make a very nice drinkable wine when young and an interesting wine when aged.
The old traditions where never really studied by people in Napa, they relied too much on chemist and chemistry to make wine and never understood the true nature of making fine wine. Gregory is making what I commend to be a good stance on letting people know what good wine is about and how to enjoy it. Hats off to all who follow him and may the Irish swill pour over those who write for the sake of self importance and profits and not for the true purpose of education of the reader.
CM Connect, I like all sorts of rose. Travel, Anjou, Syrah, Zinfadel and may others. Why, because they are a slight look into the soul of the grape they come from. Drinking roses from a particular grape helps me understand and appreciate the full red wine form the same grape. One can never drink enough Rose because it is the doorway to the great reds to follow.
“ ?..........or just another thought.” Yes, but your thought, CM Connect, will ring bells in many followers of this format. Your energy is a joy to see and hear. Your thoughts are not lost in the NET but are being picked up by those who have the instinct and foresight to see and understand them.
“Can we only see things from our own perpectives?” Gregory has his own perspective and you appreciate it deeply. CM Connect; As one who does so, you have to think that there are many more who feel the same way about wine and how to discuss wine as you and Gregory and myself. So keep up the good fight. Many of the readers of this format seem to agree with you.
Given the comments I have read in Snooth, unfortunately I feel that older fellows like myself who have been in the business since the 60’s are few. Hope I am wrong on this because I invite these old soldiers to come out and express their ideas and tell their stories. But it is up to you young people to carry the banner that Gregory so thoughtfully hosted up upon the seven hills of Rome.
In time we may share glasses of wine in person, but as we have this wonderfull means to share ideas we can do os with a glass in our hands, right now I am enjoying a 15 year old Oloroso from Dry Sack and it is making this writing ever so enjoyable.
“I firmly believe that being alive is good for you.................(shouting now).........”
Well it certainly has not killed me in 64 years of life but there are pains and mistakes. But sitting down and tasting wine good or bad is always an interesting experience for me. Wine is a living piece of life and each bottle has its own character and delights either presently or in the past. To appreciate wine you must simply drink it and let it tell its own tale of travel and potential future. I simply try to understand the historical route it has traveled and where it may be going. “ Like an young woman, she can dazzle you but it takes time to put some thought into what she will become as a woman, or a mature woman who can capture your thoughts and stimulate your imagination. You can imagine her youthful beauty but now only wish to appreciate her maturity and ways of life.” “Wine of any age can be a study of art.”
Oct 23, 2012 at 3:11 AM
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